PDA

View Full Version : Was Jimmie Walker getting along with Esther Rolle and John Amos on the set?


TVFactFan
12-13-2002, 04:14 PM
I'm asking this question because i found out that J.J wasn't in the episode "Rent Party" just like Esther Rolle wasn't in "Enlistment" and John Amos wasn't in "Michael's Big Fall", "A PLace to Die" and the "BABY. The characters Michael and Thelma were always seen. So since Rolle, Amos, and Walker were the onl characters missing, Iwanted to know did they get along on the set. Does anyone know?

W.J. Griffin
12-15-2002, 10:56 PM
Considering all the backstage strife that went on, I would say "no", they didn't get along. Rolle and Amos never had a good thing to say about Jimmie Walker's character, and, presumably, Mr. Walker was probably offended and hurt by their accusations.

TVFactFan
12-15-2002, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by W.J. Griffin
Considering all the backstage strife that went on, I would say "no", they didn't get along. Rolle and Amos never had a good thing to say about Jimmie Walker's character, and, presumably, Mr. Walker was probably offended and hurt by their accusations.

But did Walker feel the same way about the J.J character being too silly? If not, then that let's me know he is a goofball in real life. Is that why Walker, Rolle, and Amos was absent in certain episodes?

Brian Damage
12-16-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by SOLOMON


But did Walker feel the same way about the J.J character being too silly? If not, then that let's me know he is a goofball in real life. Is that why Walker, Rolle, and Amos was absent in certain episodes?

Why would that make him a goofball in real life? Jimmy Walker wasn't a method actor he was a struggling comedian before Good Times.

Good Times was his big break that made him a national phenomenon overnight. Why would he or anybody for that matter complain that their character was too goofy, when it was making him a ton of money?

Don't get me wrong, I love GT, but the show probably wouldn't have lasted as long without the JJ character.

TVFactFan
12-16-2002, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by briandamage


Why would that make him a goofball in real life? Jimmy Walker wasn't a method actor he was a struggling comedian before Good Times.

Good Times was his big break that made him a national phenomenon overnight. Why would he or anybody for that matter complain that their character was too goofy, when it was making him a ton of money?

Don't get me wrong, I love GT, but the show probably wouldn't have lasted as long without the JJ character.

The fact that Rolle and Amos wanted viewers to take the show seriously should made Walker want to tone down the silliness of the J.J character. And the fact that he wanted to continue to take focus off what the show was really about makes him look more stupid. I bet Amos woukdn't even speak to that fool if he saw him. Lots of people always label Good Times as a Goofy show but I always have to correct them and say the show wasn't Goofy, it was J.J

Brian Damage
12-16-2002, 05:58 PM
Don't blame Jimmy Walker, blame the writers who made him that way. While you're at it, you mine as well blame the audience who wanted to see more and more of JJ.

ThomasE
12-16-2002, 06:01 PM
SOLOMON, none of the cast members were seen on each episode.

Thelma was not featured in "A Matter of Mothers"
Michael was not in "The Art Contest"

ThomasE
12-16-2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by briandamage
Don't blame Jimmy Walker, blame the writers who made him that way. While you're at it, you mine as well blame the audience who wanted to see more and more of JJ.

I didn't mind seeing J.J., however they should have made him a more respectable black character example and Ms. Rolle should have had more spotlight time IMO. Trust me, every one has their own tool on a show that will make it overly funny so JJ DID help make the show even funnier. Let's just say both actors were needed. Good Times without Florida caused the ratings to go no matter how funny or stupid J.J. was. The last season was too late to save the show when bringing back Ms. Rolle but it was a good decision to bring her back that way the show did have a mother in the end of the series. Too bad James Sr could not be brought back from the dead, though.

Brian Damage
12-16-2002, 06:18 PM
I think that was the worst decision to kill him off. Then again, what else could they have done?

Brian Damage
12-16-2002, 06:22 PM
The thing that just bothers me about SOLOMON'S comments is that he wants to put the blame squarely on Jimmy Walker's shoulders.

ThomasE
12-16-2002, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by briandamage
I think that was the worst decision to kill him off. Then again, what else could they have done?

Work with him. They did when it came to Carroll O' Connor.

Brian Damage
12-18-2002, 04:59 PM
So are you saying it was a rash decision by the producers to kill him off?

ThomasE
12-18-2002, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by briandamage
So are you saying it was a rash decision by the producers to kill him off?

One of the writers for the show stated in her interview for "E True Hollywood Stories" is that "John was asked to leave. Some people thought he left on his own, but he was asked to leave."

Brian Damage
12-18-2002, 07:10 PM
Interesting.

Moonlight Lady
12-27-2002, 06:50 PM
It's a shame that they didn't get along with each other. Oh well it happens. For the most part, JJ was really funny. Sometimes, I found him to be annoying. Willona, Bookman and Penny were my favorites.

TVFactFan
12-27-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Lil Kelso
It's a shame that they didn't get along with each other. Oh well it happens. For the most part, JJ was really funny. Sometimes, I found him to be annoying. Willona, Bookman and Penny were my favorites.

Penny and Bookman?????????????????

Brian Damage
12-27-2002, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by SOLOMON


Penny and Bookman?????????????????

SOLOMON, it's her opinion get over it!

TVFactFan
12-27-2002, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Brian Damage


SOLOMON, it's her opinion get over it!

I guess i was surprised because those characters were two of the reasons the show plunged in the ratings.

Brian Damage
12-27-2002, 07:10 PM
The show plunged in the ratings because the writers lost sight of what the show was originally about. It was not because of Penny and Bookman.

Moonlight Lady
12-27-2002, 07:17 PM
Solomon, you don't know what you are talking about. I checked your profile, You have 1975 listed as the year you were born.

When Penny and Bookman started appearing, you were maybe 2 or 3 years old at the most. What person at that age is gonna even understand what's going on. Don't even give me ""Well I read it in a book or I saw it on TV" You can't believe everything you hear or read.

TVFactFan
12-27-2002, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Lil Kelso
Solomon, you don't know what you are talking about. I checked your profile, You have 1975 listed as the year you were born.

When Penny and Bookman started appearing, you were maybe 2 or 3 years old at the most. What person at that age is gonna even understand what's going on. Don't even give me ""Well I read it in a book or I saw it on TV" You can't believe everything you hear or read.


I'm still able to see how the show changed from season to season in syndication.

Brian Damage
12-27-2002, 07:37 PM
It was the writing that changed the most.

Brenton
03-18-2003, 08:20 PM
Well, essentially this is what happened on Good Times: The series was a spin-off of "Maude" in which the Florida Evans character appeared. Esther Rolle was under the impression that "Good Times" was her show. It was, for a short period of time, until the character of J.J. took off. Rolle was bitterly angry over the focus of attention from her character to the J.J. character. It wasn't long before Rolle took her complaints not only to Lear but the public as well, saying the J.J. role was not a positive role model for black youth. It wasn't long before John Amos joined the argument. He, too, had become bitter over Jimmie Walker's quick rise to success. In the beginning, the producers considered the removal of both Amos and Rolle. They discovered they couldn't get rid of Rolle so easily because of her contract. Amos' character was killed off to get rid of the actor not the character. Rolle would spin the rest of the series' run threatening to leave. She left her "Good Times" experience with a very sour note. There were a lot of egos on the "Good Times" set. It was sad, because the show could have worked for awhile if everyone would have just hung on.

TVFactFan
03-18-2003, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Brenton
Well, essentially this is what happened on Good Times: The series was a spin-off of "Maude" in which the Florida Evans character appeared. Esther Rolle was under the impression that "Good Times" was her show. It was, for a short period of time, until the character of J.J. took off. Rolle was bitterly angry over the focus of attention from her character to the J.J. character. It wasn't long before Rolle took her complaints not only to Lear but the public as well, saying the J.J. role was not a positive role model for black youth. It wasn't long before John Amos joined the argument. He, too, had become bitter over Jimmie Walker's quick rise to success. In the beginning, the producers considered the removal of both Amos and Rolle. They discovered they couldn't get rid of Rolle so easily because of her contract. Amos' character was killed off to get rid of the actor not the character. Rolle would spin the rest of the series' run threatening to leave. She left her "Good Times" experience with a very sour note. There were a lot of egos on the "Good Times" set. It was sad, because the show could have worked for awhile if everyone would have just hung on.


Jimmie Walker should have realized that his character was extremely goofy and needed to mature. I'm also surprised that he wasn't bothered by the Goofiness of his character. I wonder why he never felt the same way Amos and Rolle did about the J.J character.

Tweety
03-23-2003, 05:28 AM
I think that when Jimmie Walker's character first "took off", it probably didn't bother him too much, because, as he often said at the time, he was just "playing a character"...and it WAS funny....however, I think that Rolle and Amos probably saw where this was going before Walker did, and they knew that the goofy J.J. would eventually become the focus of the show, which of course, he did, to the detriment of the show's original premise...

Good Times started out as a very good show...and I thought that Rolle and Amos were great actors and that their characters were very strong...Here we had two parents who obviously loved each other, and were determined to stay together no matter how tough things got....indeed, being together as a family made the tough times a little better for them...and then all of a sudden, the most memorable part of every episode consisted of Walker clapping his hands and saying "Dy-no-MITE"... now don't get me wrong, I watched the show from the beginning, and I was 14 when the show premiered. And, it wasn't long before we were all waiting for the "Dy-no-mite" comment, which would crack us all up...but looking back, it was a shame that two great role models like James Sr and Florida were pushed aside to make way for yet another "clown act" as they called it...I could understand their frustration...

But I certainly don't blame Walker for the JJ fiasco...he was, as he said, just playing a character, and it wasn't HIS fault that the silliness of the character became very much in demand... a lot of the blame must be placed with the producers, directors and writers...

I can sometimes watch a rerun of Good Times today, but only if it's a show involving John Amos...after his character was killed off, the show "Jumped the Shark" big time, in my opinion..

TVFactFan
03-23-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Tweety
I think that when Jimmie Walker's character first "took off", it probably didn't bother him too much, because, as he often said at the time, he was just "playing a character"...and it WAS funny....however, I think that Rolle and Amos probably saw where this was going before Walker did, and they knew that the goofy J.J. would eventually become the focus of the show, which of course, he did, to the detriment of the show's original premise...

Good Times started out as a very good show...and I thought that Rolle and Amos were great actors and that their characters were very strong...Here we had two parents who obviously loved each other, and were determined to stay together no matter how tough things got....indeed, being together as a family made the tough times a little better for them...and then all of a sudden, the most memorable part of every episode consisted of Walker clapping his hands and saying "Dy-no-MITE"... now don't get me wrong, I watched the show from the beginning, and I was 14 when the show premiered. And, it wasn't long before we were all waiting for the "Dy-no-mite" comment, which would crack us all up...but looking back, it was a shame that two great role models like James Sr and Florida were pushed aside to make way for yet another "clown act" as they called it...I could understand their frustration...

But I certainly don't blame Walker for the JJ fiasco...he was, as he said, just playing a character, and it wasn't HIS fault that the silliness of the character became very much in demand... a lot of the blame must be placed with the producers, directors and writers...

I can sometimes watch a rerun of Good Times today, but only if it's a show involving John Amos...after his character was killed off, the show "Jumped the Shark" big time, in my opinion..


Well the dyno-mite comment became retarded after a while. I will admit that it was only one time the dyno-mite phrase made me laugh-when the family gun was missing and when it was found J.J said i recognized that gun anywhere it looks just like me SLIM, Black, and Dynomite-LOL. That wasthe only time. I agree about the show jumping the shark after James was killed offbut that 76-77 season was like a car on a road with a little bit of gas left. It still have some good episodes left but u knew it was only a matter of time before the show would end.

I have a question for you since you was 16 around the time the James character was killed off. Did you know that John Amos was not going to be on the show? When Florida read the Telegram and read that he was killed, was that a shock that his character was killed? What was your reaction? I'm trying to find out did the viewing public know that John Amos was removed from the show before that episode.

PracTz
03-23-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by SOLOMON



I have a question for you since you was 16 around the time the James character was killed off. Did you know that John Amos was not going to be on the show? When Florida read the Telegram and read that he was killed, was that a shock that his character was killed? What was your reaction? I'm trying to find out did the viewing public know that John Amos was removed from the show before that episode.

I know you didn't ask me personally but I'm old enough to remember watching the Telegram Episode. ..and, there had been a great deal of publicity about the Amos/JJ dispute that whole summer and by the time that season's premiere aired (AKA 'The Telegram Episode'), we all knew Amos wasn't going to be on the show anymore and we were certain the REST of the family wasn't going to relocate in Mississippi so we were anticipating bad news re James while watching the whole episode! Unlike 'M*A*S*H' 'Abyssinia, Henry' episode (which we thought would just have him sent home in one piece), from the beginning of this episode we viewers KNEW James' days were numbered and were watching with dread to see how this would be dealt with. Does this help?

TVFactFan
03-23-2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by PracTz


I know you didn't ask me personally but I'm old enough to remember watching the Telegram Episode. ..and, there had been a great deal of publicity about the Amos/JJ dispute that whole summer and by the time that season's premiere aired (AKA 'The Telegram Episode'), we all knew Amos wasn't going to be on the show anymore and we were certain the REST of the family wasn't going to relocate in Mississippi so we were anticipating bad news re James while watching the whole episode! Unlike 'M*A*S*H' 'Abyssinia, Henry' episode (which we thought would just have him sent home in one piece), from the beginning of this episode we viewers KNEW James' days were numbered and were watching with dread to see how this would be dealt with. Does this help?


So you knew that the show was going to go downhill from that point? So u think it would be kill off?

PracTz
03-23-2003, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by SOLOMON



So you knew that the show was going to go downhill from that point?

Yeah, I thought it wouldn't be as good but I stuck with it til it ended 2 and a half years later.

So u think it would be kill off?

If James had just abandoned the family, that'd have totally TRASHED his character and everything he stood for so I knew he couldn't have lived without his family.
I remember reading shortly after the episode where John Amos spoke out against how his character's absence was handled saying that it damaged the concept of an African-American family headed by a strong father. .. yet, it wasn't as though James had deliberately run off or something he had been KILLED and the family had to pick up the pieces and move on. .. and I wonder how Mr. Amos thinks they could have done better? I know he's said he was fired but I think he should have been at least relieved that the writers didn't trash his character at the end so that the viewers would have HATED him (and Amos) every time they saw him thereafter.

AtlantaBravesFan29
03-23-2003, 08:38 PM
Well,it lost its main figure when John Amos left the show. I watched the reruns of it where Florida reads the telegram and says that James dies in a car accident in Mississippi that saddened me. Also after they had the funeral,Florida acts like nothing happens and hides the fact that she is sad and that makes Michael and Thelma very upset. The end part where Florida breaks the punch bowl was sad to watch as well. I think for the most part Good Times sort of ended in the 1976-1977 season. They just wanted it to last longer.

TVFactFan
03-23-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by PracTz


If James had just abandoned the family, that'd have totally TRASHED his character and everything he stood for so I knew he couldn't have lived without his family.
I remember reading shortly after the episode where John Amos spoke out against how his character's absence was handled saying that it damaged the concept of an African-American family headed by a strong father. .. yet, it wasn't as though James had deliberately run off or something he had been KILLED and the family had to pick up the pieces and move on. .. and I wonder how Mr. Amos thinks they could have done better? I know he's said he was fired but I think he should have been at least relieved that the writers didn't trash his character at the end so that the viewers would have HATED him (and Amos) every time they saw him thereafter.

So was you wondering how he ended up in Mississipi at the beginning of the THE BIG MOVE? I found that kind of strange that he was in Mississpi alone-LOL. So Amos really spoke out after part one of the move?

PracTz
03-24-2003, 10:46 AM
I think they had said that James was headed to Mississippi to become a partner in a family friend's garage and had gone ahead to get things ready for the rest of the family to join him as soon as he was firmly established so I didn't wonder WHY he was there but I knew he wouldn't be back or in this world for long (and I knew that there was NO CHANCE the rest of the family and the show would have relocated to Mississippi)!
I wonder how the show would have been had they all actually gone to Mississippi? And why didn't we see anyone from Mississippi at the funeral?

TVFactFan
03-24-2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by PracTz
I think they had said that James was headed to Mississippi to become a partner in a family friend's garage and had gone ahead to get things ready for the rest of the family to join him as soon as he was firmly established so I didn't wonder WHY he was there but I knew he wouldn't be back or in this world for long (and I knew that there was NO CHANCE the rest of the family and the show would have relocated to Mississippi)!
I wonder how the show would have been had they all actually gone to Mississippi? And why didn't we see anyone from Mississippi at the funeral?


I could see no one was interested in Good Times at the start of the 77-78 season. Did you also know Florida wasn't returning before the start of 1977-78?

Tweety
03-24-2003, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by SOLOMON



I have a question for you since you was 16 around the time the James character was killed off. Did you know that John Amos was not going to be on the show? When Florida read the Telegram and read that he was killed, was that a shock that his character was killed? What was your reaction? I'm trying to find out did the viewing public know that John Amos was removed from the show before that episode.


Hi Solomon -

To be honest, I doubt that I had any idea that John Amos was going to, or wanted to, leave the show at that time...

I can tell you that I was DEFINITELY shocked when Florida read the telegram which informed her of Jame's death...I was on vacation with my family and we watched that episode while we were in Colorado (we lived in NJ)...and I remember wondering whether or not the show would even go on after that...

Back in those days, I would basically watch my favorite shows, but I never really followed any of the behind-the-scenes antics that went on with any of the shows I watched...I'm not sure what was on back then in terms of "Entertainment Tonight" type shows, but I'm sure I never watched anything like that back in those days...(this was also pre-cable as well, at least where I lived, although we were able to get about 15-20 channels, thanks to the fact that we were about halfway between New York and Philadelphia, so our over-the-air antenna's were able to get a lot of stations, 3 networks plus about 15 or 16 independent channels...so we never lacked for something to watch)..

But no, I had no idea that Amos wanted to leave the show, and it was a total shock to me when Florida read that telegram...and I think that was the talk of the neighborhood during the summer too, as that was the last episode of that season, I believe)

Thanks for asking...I'm happy to give an "on the spot" report as someone who actually lived through that episode (although "Where were you when Florida read that telegram" doesn't quite have the same oooomph as "Where were you when JFK was shot?").. :wave:

TVFactFan
03-24-2003, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Tweety



Hi Solomon -

To be honest, I doubt that I had any idea that John Amos was going to, or wanted to, leave the show at that time...

I can tell you that I was DEFINITELY shocked when Florida read the telegram which informed her of Jame's death...I was on vacation with my family and we watched that episode while we were in Colorado (we lived in NJ)...and I remember wondering whether or not the show would even go on after that...

Back in those days, I would basically watch my favorite shows, but I never really followed any of the behind-the-scenes antics that went on with any of the shows I watched...I'm not sure what was on back then in terms of "Entertainment Tonight" type shows, but I'm sure I never watched anything like that back in those days...(this was also pre-cable as well, at least where I lived, although we were able to get about 15-20 channels, thanks to the fact that we were about halfway between New York and Philadelphia, so our over-the-air antenna's were able to get a lot of stations, 3 networks plus about 15 or 16 independent channels...so we never lacked for something to watch)..

But no, I had no idea that Amos wanted to leave the show, and it was a total shock to me when Florida read that telegram...and I think that was the talk of the neighborhood during the summer too, as that was the last episode of that season, I believe)

Thanks for asking...I'm happy to give an "on the spot" report as someone who actually lived through that episode (although "Where were you when Florida read that telegram" doesn't quite have the same oooomph as "Where were you when JFK was shot?").. :wave:



Actually that episode when Florida reads the Telegram is the very first episode of the 1976-1977 season.

PracTz
03-25-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by SOLOMON



I could see no one was interested in Good Times at the start of the 77-78 season. Did you also know Florida wasn't returning before the start of 1977-78?

Yeah, I recall that I knew she wasn't going to be around for 1978-79 but I stuck out that season [IMO the worst one] because I was hoping she'd come back. I just didn't buy that Florida could up and leave her children [with JJ in charge?] and hope that Willona would take time from her job and dates to pop in to look in on them. I was glad to see her back the next season! BTW, does anyone recall her being addressed as Florida after James' death? Willona called her 'Flo', the kids 'Mama' and everyone else as 'Mrs. Evans'. OK, maybe Carl did but does this mean that only folks she was engaged/married to used her given name?

TVFactFan
04-06-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by PracTz


Yeah, I recall that I knew she wasn't going to be around for 1978-79 but I stuck out that season [IMO the worst one] because I was hoping she'd come back. I just didn't buy that Florida could up and leave her children [with JJ in charge?] and hope that Willona would take time from her job and dates to pop in to look in on them. I was glad to see her back the next season! BTW, does anyone recall her being addressed as Florida after James' death? Willona called her 'Flo', the kids 'Mama' and everyone else as 'Mrs. Evans'. OK, maybe Carl did but does this mean that only folks she was engaged/married to used her given name?


What was your feelings about the Carl character and did you see any point of adding Janet Jackson?

PracTz
04-07-2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by SOLOMON



What was your feelings about the Carl character and did you see any point of adding Janet Jackson?

Sorry I didn't get to this sooner. Although I didn't like the way they introduced him (as coming between Florida and Michael w/ the intro of his atheism), I thought Carl was okay- and they obviously were trying to re-establish the idea of an African-American family headed by a man. Moses Gunn was an excellent actor and I think he did the role as best as it could have been done yet I think they chucked this character when Florida (Miss Rolle) wasn't going to return the next season. Still, it would have been interesting to have seen how he (and Florida) would have reacted the first time one of the kids said to their new stepfather 'You're not my REAL Dad!'!
As to Miss Jackson? I guess the 'point' was they were desperate for the 'cute kid' angle- as Michael had grown too old for that role and obviously fewer people would have tuned in had it JUST been about two 20-something screaming siblings along with their teenaged kid brother making do on their own. But I guess the producers thought that seeing Willona tending to HER made it more plausible that Willona COULD be a responsible adult looking out for the Evans kids and NOT just a wisecracking, next door neighbor. I think Miss Jackson did the best she could have,too, but the whole scenario of how Penny got there seemed implausible [would 1970's Social Services have so eagerly given over the abused daughter of a single mother to a non-related single woman who was said mother's FOE?!]. Perhaps, they could have had her (and her mother) been Willona's distant relatives or something. . or had just had the intro episodes be the ONLY times with Penny but had her have gone to a different home altogether. Yes, her scared (and scarred) face when she was facing that hot iron was one of the most gripping moments ever on TV (and, even back then, I didn't quite buy Miss Jackson's 'I just copied some kid on TV's expressions' explanation for HOW she could protray this so realisticly). Yet, her character didn't quite gell . .and she had little if any chemistry with Ja'net DuBois . (weren't there quite a few episodes towards the end of the last season in which the two NEVER shared a scene together?)! I somehow doubt that if Carl (and Florida) stayed in Chicago, they'd have bothered with Penny!

TVFactFan
04-08-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by PracTz


Sorry I didn't get to this sooner. Although I didn't like the way they introduced him (as coming between Florida and Michael w/ the intro of his atheism), I thought Carl was okay- and they obviously were trying to re-establish the idea of an African-American family headed by a man. Moses Gunn was an excellent actor and I think he did the role as best as it could have been done yet I think they chucked this character when Florida (Miss Rolle) wasn't going to return the next season. Still, it would have been interesting to have seen how he (and Florida) would have reacted the first time one of the kids said to their new stepfather 'You're not my REAL Dad!'!
As to Miss Jackson? I guess the 'point' was they were desperate for the 'cute kid' angle- as Michael had grown too old for that role and obviously fewer people would have tuned in had it JUST been about two 20-something screaming siblings along with their teenaged kid brother making do on their own. But I guess the producers thought that seeing Willona tending to HER made it more plausible that Willona COULD be a responsible adult looking out for the Evans kids and NOT just a wisecracking, next door neighbor. I think Miss Jackson did the best she could have,too, but the whole scenario of how Penny got there seemed implausible [would 1970's Social Services have so eagerly given over the abused daughter of a single mother to a non-related single woman who was said mother's FOE?!]. Perhaps, they could have had her (and her mother) been Willona's distant relatives or something. . or had just had the intro episodes be the ONLY times with Penny but had her have gone to a different home altogether. Yes, her scared (and scarred) face when she was facing that hot iron was one of the most gripping moments ever on TV (and, even back then, I didn't quite buy Miss Jackson's 'I just copied some kid on TV's expressions' explanation for HOW she could protray this so realisticly). Yet, her character didn't quite gell . .and she had little if any chemistry with Ja'net DuBois . (weren't there quite a few episodes towards the end of the last season in which the two NEVER shared a scene together?)! I somehow doubt that if Carl (and Florida) stayed in Chicago, they'd have bothered with Penny!



I think if Florida had never left the show, that would have allowed viewers to get used to Carl and the show might have lasted until the 1980's.

GeeBee
06-23-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
The fact that Rolle and Amos wanted viewers to take the show seriously should made Walker want to tone down the silliness of the J.J character. And the fact that he wanted to continue to take focus off what the show was really about makes him look more stupid. I bet Amos woukdn't even speak to that fool if he saw him. Lots of people always label Good Times as a Goofy show but I always have to correct them and say the show wasn't Goofy, it was J.J


But, it was a comedy show.

GeeBee
06-23-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
What was your feelings about the Carl character and did you see any point of adding Janet Jackson?


It seemed like they really didn't know what to do with Carl. On his first appearance he's an atheist (which I believe never gets mentioned again). On another episode he's JJ's rival as man of the family. Then he has cancer. And finally he vanishes with no explanation at all. I don't think his character was all that well thought out.

GeeBee
06-23-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by PracTz
If James had just abandoned the family, that'd have totally TRASHED his character and everything he stood for so I knew he couldn't have lived without his family.
I remember reading shortly after the episode where John Amos spoke out against how his character's absence was handled saying that it damaged the concept of an African-American family headed by a strong father. .. yet, it wasn't as though James had deliberately run off or something he had been KILLED and the family had to pick up the pieces and move on. .. and I wonder how Mr. Amos thinks they could have done better?

Well, they could have given him a soap opera death where he's reported killed, but no body ever found, leaving it open for a possible return.

TVFactFan
06-23-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
But, it was a comedy show.

Jimmie could have still had enough respect for Esther and John to tone down the goofiness of that J.J character.

GeeBee
06-24-2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Jimmie could have still had enough respect for Esther and John to tone down the goofiness of that J.J character.

Did Jimmie really owe them anything at the expense of his own success? He wasn't their son in real life, you know.

TVFactFan
06-24-2003, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
Did Jimmie really owe them anything at the expense of his own success? He wasn't their son in real life, you know.


But it was Esther Rolle and John Amos Show, NOT Jimmie Walker's show. So since it wasn't his show he should have asked the producers to make the J.J character less STUPID

GeeBee
06-24-2003, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
But it was Esther Rolle and John Amos Show, NOT Jimmie Walker's show. So since it wasn't his show he should have asked the producers to make the J.J character less STUPID


Why? How was it his responsibility to keep the two of them happy? If it was really their show, they would have already had the authority to make him stop, which they obviously did not. Jimmie had a comedic style that worked and was making him famous. If he had stopped it just to appease two jealous co-stars, he really would have been stupid.

TVFactFan
06-24-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
Why? How was it his responsibility to keep the two of them happy? If it was really their show, they would have already had the authority to make him stop, which they obviously did not. Jimmie had a comedic style that worked and was making him famous. If he had stopped it just to appease two jealous co-stars, he really would have been stupid.

We both knw that John Amos was the real star of Good Times. Not Jimmie Walker. It was the James Evans character that put the show in the top ten.

GeeBee
06-24-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
We both knw that John Amos was the real star of Good Times. Not Jimmie Walker. It was the James Evans character that put the show in the top ten.


We BOTH know that? When did you start speaking for me? The show went on without John Amos. I don't think it could have gone on without Jimmie Walker.

TVFactFan
06-24-2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
We BOTH know that? When did you start speaking for me? The show went on without John Amos. I don't think it could have gone on without Jimmie Walker.


The ratings were lower and lower after each season without Amos.

GeeBee
06-24-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
The ratings were lower and lower after each season without Amos.

But, imagine how much lower they might have been without Walker. The series would probably have been canceled much sooner.

TVFactFan
06-25-2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by GeeBee
But, imagine how much lower they might have been without Walker. The series would probably have been canceled much sooner.

I doubt it, Florida, James, Thelma, and Michael would have been interesting to see. Especially without a Tall Clown. See what you are failing to realize is the show no longer was a sitcom about a family. It was the J.J show. He was too old in real life at the time to be playing such a Dumb Role

GeeBee
06-25-2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
I doubt it, Florida, James, Thelma, and Michael would have been interesting to see. Especially without a Tall Clown. See what you are failing to realize is the show no longer was a sitcom about a family. It was the J.J show. He was too old in real life at the time to be playing such a Dumb Role


Sounds like it would have been a pretty boring show without him. Of course it was the J.J. show. He was the funniest and the most talented. Don't you know that adult clowns playing dumb roles have been the basis for comedy throughout history? Some people seemed to want to deny Jimmie the right to be a funny man simply because he was African American.

TVFactFan
06-25-2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by GeeBee
Sounds like it would have been a pretty boring show without him. Of course it was the J.J. show. He was the funniest and the most talented. Don't you know that adult clowns playing dumb roles have been the basis for comedy throughout history? Some people seemed to want to deny Jimmie the right to be a funny man simply because he was African American.


That silly hat J.J wore and the phrase "Dynomite" was a little over the top. James and Florida were the ones who made me laugh.

GeeBee
06-25-2003, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
That silly hat J.J wore and the phrase "Dynomite" was a little over the top. James and Florida were the ones who made me laugh.

In what way were James and Florida funny? I thought the main problem these two actors had with the show was that they thought it was too funny.

And since when is there anything wrong with a comedic actor wearing a silly hat or having a catch phrase?

TVFactFan
06-25-2003, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by GeeBee
In what way were James and Florida funny? I thought the main problem these two actors had with the show was that they thought it was too funny.

And since when is there anything wrong with a comedic actor wearing a silly hat or having a catch phrase?


James and Florida were more of DRY Humor. Meaning that you have to really listen and pay attention to what they are saying in order to laugh.

GeeBee
06-25-2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
James and Florida were more of DRY Humor. Meaning that you have to really listen and pay attention to what they are saying in order to laugh.


I really think both of them were better dramatic actors, especially Rolle. They seemed like they really wanted to turn Good Times into a serious drama. Jimmie knew how to get the belly laughs that are expected in a sitcom; he would have been a fool to compromise on that.

TVFactFan
06-25-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
I really think both of them were better dramatic actors, especially Rolle. They seemed like they really wanted to turn Good Times into a serious drama. Jimmie knew how to get the belly laughs that are expected in a sitcom; he would have been a fool to compromise on that.


Jimmie only got laughs because he was FUNNY LOOKING-LOL

GeeBee
06-26-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Jimmie only got laughs because he was FUNNY LOOKING-LOL


Careful, that could almost be taken as a racist statement.

TVFactFan
06-26-2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
Careful, that could almost be taken as a racist statement.

How so? Anyone can see who's funny looking no matter what race they are.

GeeBee
06-27-2003, 07:54 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
How so? Anyone can see who's funny looking no matter what race they are.

In any case, it's pretty small to make fun of someone's appearance just because you want to win an argument. It was obviously Jimmie's performance, and not his looks, that got the laughs otherwise there wouldn't have been so much screaming for him to tone his character down.

TVFactFan
06-27-2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
In any case, it's pretty small to make fun of someone's appearance just because you want to win an argument. It was obviously Jimmie's performance, and not his looks, that got the laughs otherwise there wouldn't have been so much screaming for him to tone his character down.


Well i have to disagree because the executive producer said that Jimmie Walker was a ganrunteed laugh. And you know what that means-LOL

GeeBee
06-27-2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Well i have to disagree because the executive producer said that Jimmie Walker was a ganrunteed laugh. And you know what that means-LOL

Boy, you sure like to quote that executive producer. Actually, a "guaranteed laugh" could have meant that he had a style of comedy that was naturally funny. But, again I ask, if it was his appearance that caused all the laughs, why all the pressure to modify his character?

TVFactFan
06-27-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
Boy, you sure like to quote that executive producer. Actually, a "guaranteed laugh" could have meant that he had a style of comedy that was naturally funny. But, again I ask, if it was his appearance that caused all the laughs, why all the pressure to modify his character?


He was kind of unusual looking and acting even more weird so that's why Rolle wanted to modify his character. Let me also put a quote from a 1974 TV guide saying how audience laughed at his appearance


"Walker is one of the funniest sights available on the tube. He has the neck movement of an automatic sprinkler, and the bulb-eyed glare of an aggravated emu, all supported by a physique that resembles an inverted 6-foot tuning fork."

GeeBee
06-27-2003, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
He was kind of unusual looking and acting even more weird so that's why Rolle wanted to modify his character. Let me also put a quote from a 1974 TV guide saying how audience laughed at his appearance


"Walker is one of the funniest sights available on the tube. He has the neck movement of an automatic sprinkler, and the bulb-eyed glare of an aggravated emu, all supported by a physique that resembles an inverted 6-foot tuning fork."


Another quote. Any original thoughts? Many great comedians have made their appearance part of their comedy such as Phyllis Diller's jokes about her looks, Jackie Gleason's jokes about his weight, etc. Having said that, there's no way any comical character could get by on an appearance alone. Ultimately, it is their talent that makes them famous. The main frustration seems to be that Jimmie was funnier than John Amos (who was no Sydney Poitier himself). Rather than give credit where credit was due, they tried to redefine the whole concept of a sitcom which was originally to be funny and make people laugh.

TVFactFan
06-27-2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
Another quote. Any original thoughts? Many great comedians have made their appearance part of their comedy such as Phyllis Diller's jokes about her looks, Jackie Gleason's jokes about his weight, etc. Having said that, there's no way any comical character could get by on an appearance alone. Ultimately, it is their talent that makes them famous. The main frustration seems to be that Jimmie was funnier than John Amos (who was no Sydney Poitier himself). Rather than give credit where credit was due, they tried to redefine the whole concept of a sitcom which was originally to be funny and make people laugh.



Jimmy was not funnier than John Amos at all. The only time the J.J character made me laugh is when the family was looking a gun and when they found the gun, J.J said-"Yeah I recognize that gun anywhere, it looks just me, Slim, Black, and Dynomite! But he still was not ever ever funnier than Amos

GeeBee
06-27-2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Jimmy was not funnier than John Amos at all. The only time the J.J character made me laugh is when the family was looking a gun and when they found the gun, J.J said-"Yeah I recognize that gun anywhere, it looks just me, Slim, Black, and Dynomite! But he still was not ever ever funnier than Amos


Yes, you've said that before, but you've yet to give me any examples of how John Amos was funny. Honestly, I found his character on Good Times to be A LOT more annoying than J.J.

James was often loud, abrasive, and overbearing. While the sitcom fathers of Cosby, Brady, and Beaver were usually calm and in control, all James seemed to know how to do was yell, hit, and threaten. I'm not saying his character was totally out of place in an impoverished family setting, but I'd hardly call it humorous. In many ways, Good Times was a lot bleaker than other sitcoms with ongoing poverty and social injustice. If it wasn't for J.J.'s character, I don't see how it would have been a comedy at all. In defense of John Amos, I think he did much better in serious roles like his excellent performance in Roots.

TVFactFan
06-27-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by GeeBee
Yes, you've said that before, but you've yet to give me any examples of how John Amos was funny. Honestly, I found his character on Good Times to be A LOT more annoying than J.J. James was often loud, abrasive, and overbearing. While the sitcom fathers of Cosby, Brady, and Beaver were usually calm and in control, all James seemed to know how to do was yell, hit, and threaten. I'm not saying his character was totally out of place in an impoverished family setting, but I'd hardly call it humorous. In many ways, Good Times was a lot bleaker than other sitcoms with ongoing poverty and social injustice. If it wasn't for J.J.'s character, I don't see how it would have been a comedy at all. In defense of John Amos, I think he did much better in serious roles like his excellent performance in Roots.




I will give you an example


Florida: James if so one broke in our house would you really use that gun on them?

James:Is fat meat greasy?-LOL

GeeBee
06-28-2003, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
I will give you an example


Florida: James if so one broke in our house would you really use that gun on them?

James:Is fat meat greasy?-LOL


Well, it just goes to show you that what people consider to be funny is very subjective (man, is it subjective...!) But, if you recall, this whole thread started with your statement that Amos and Rolle wanted people to take the show seriously. So, why would Amos try to be funny? If there was ever a time that the James character was funny, it was as a reactor to J.J.'s humor. On the episode where the F.B.I. causes James to lose his job, J.J.'s continuous jokes make James say, "Boy, you sure can act a fool sometimes!" Or the episode where James, J.J., and Michael all had to sleep in the sofa bed for some reason. J.J.'s continuous uttering of "Good night, John Boy" causes James to blow his top. So yes, I will concede that James had an element of humor as J.J.'s straight man. For that matter, all of the other characters were only funny when they played off of J.J. Amos and Rolle may have started out as the stars, but Jimmie Walker was the real star in every sense of the word and I really think they should have changed the show's name to "J.J.'s Good Times". I'll bet the ratings would have gone up.

TVFactFan
06-28-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by GeeBee
Well, it just goes to show you that what people consider to be funny is very subjective (man, is it subjective...!) But, if you recall, this whole thread started with your statement that Amos and Rolle wanted people to take the show seriously. So, why would Amos try to be funny? If there was ever a time that the James character was funny, it was as a reactor to J.J.'s humor. On the episode where the F.B.I. causes James to lose his job, J.J.'s continuous jokes make James say, "Boy, you sure can act a fool sometimes!" Or the episode where James, J.J., and Michael all had to sleep in the sofa bed for some reason. J.J.'s continuous uttering of "Good night, John Boy" causes James to blow his top. So yes, I will concede that James had an element of humor as J.J.'s straight man. For that matter, all of the other characters were only funny when they played off of J.J. Amos and Rolle may have started out as the stars, but Jimmie Walker was the real star in every sense of the word and I really think they should have changed the show's name to "J.J.'s Good Times". I'll bet the ratings would have gone up.



Amos was funny because his character was not trying to make no one laugh. It's called INDIRECT COMEDY

GeeBee
06-28-2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Amos was funny because his character was not trying to make no one laugh. It's called INDIRECT COMEDY

So indirect that it missed by a mile.

TVFactFan
06-28-2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by GeeBee
So indirect that it missed by a mile.

You just didn't pay attention to what James was saying

GeeBee
06-28-2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
You just didn't pay attention to what James was saying

No, I paid attention. I just didn't think he was funny.

TVFactFan
06-28-2003, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by GeeBee
No, I paid attention. I just didn't think he was funny.


Here is another funny scene.

The kids was telling James they will get a job so he won;'t go to alaska.


James:"What kind of Home is it going to be with everyone working, it won't be nobody home, the answer is NO!!!!!!-LOL

GeeBee
06-28-2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Here is another funny scene.

The kids was telling James they will get a job so he won;'t go to alaska.


James:"What kind of Home is it going to be with everyone working, it won't be nobody home, the answer is NO!!!!!!-LOL


My sides are splitting.

laneyday
08-23-2003, 11:27 PM
ThomasE, I'd like to interject that Michael wasn't on 'My son the lover' either.:wave: :wave: