I'm MAD at the artists I grew up listening to! [Archive] - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

pontoon

07-23-2002, 03:14 PM

Boy...that 'rap' thread sure got me going!

Now I've got a bone to pick with all the 'Classic Rock' artists I grew up with!

The Who
The Beatles
Hendrix
Bob Seger
The Doors
and there's LOTS more!!!

What do they ALL have in common? Be it the original songs, or a version 'covered' by someone else...they've all SOLD THEIR SONGS TO COMMERCIALS!

Seems like every time a commercial break graces my TV, I hear a classic tune selling something!

Things SURE have changed since the 60's and 70's...when 'artistic integrity' actually meant something!

The only one I have ANY respect for is John Mellencamp...who SWEARS he will never sell his songs for commercial purposes!

But Hendrix! Probably spinning in his grave! :guitar:

C'mon boomers...waddya think?

pontoon :cool:

Hollow

07-23-2002, 03:33 PM

um....what was the point of that

pontoon

07-23-2002, 03:52 PM

It's called a 'thread'! :rolleyes:

I'm soliciting opinions from baby boomers on the subject of selling music for commercials! Isn't that what this site is for? It certainly has more content than SOME of the posts I've seen around here...like "Here's a picture of my room"! Pah-lease! I thought that thread was a bit silly...but you didn't see me going in there and making comments like yours!

If you have no opinions on the subject...then why bother answering this 'thread'?

Isn't this the 'chit chat' section? Or because I'm not a 'giddy school-girl', I can't solicit opinions on things?

<< I'm MAD at the artists I grew up listening to! >>

NOW I'm mad at you too!

pontoon :mad:

vienna waits

07-23-2002, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
It certainly has more content than SOME of the posts I've seen around here...like "Here's a picture of my room"! Pah-lease! I thought that thread was a bit silly...but you didn't see me going in there and making comments like yours!

I happen to like that post. :)

Ewan's My Man

07-23-2002, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by tootieismyfav

I happen to like that post. :)

:rotflmao:

Jinny Girl

07-23-2002, 04:08 PM

Well this point was really kinda pointless. They get paid for doing commercials. Thats all they really care about probably. Besides, is being on a commercial really that degrading?

Plata

07-23-2002, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
Boy...that 'rap' thread sure got me going!

Now I've got a bone to pick with all the 'Classic Rock' artists I grew up with!

The Who
The Beatles
Hendrix
Bob Seger
The Doors
and there's LOTS more!!!

What do they ALL have in common? Be it the original songs, or a version 'covered' by someone else...they've all SOLD THEIR SONGS TO COMMERCIALS!

Seems like every time a commercial break graces my TV, I hear a classic tune selling something!

Things SURE have changed since the 60's and 70's...when 'artistic integrity' actually meant something!

The only one I have ANY respect for is John Mellencamp...who SWEARS he will never sell his songs for commercial purposes!

But Hendrix! Probably spinning in his grave! :guitar:

C'mon boomers...waddya think?

pontoon :cool:

Well, it would have been the artists' choice to sell their songs to be used for commercials and to probably allow other artists to sing their songs. One song by Smash Mouth "Believer" is a good remake of the song by the Monkees. Although, I think the song "Satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones is better than the "Satisfaction" song done by Britney Spears. I don't mind the "Satisfaction" song sung by Justine Bateman for the Satisfaction film, though. Another song that was resung was "I Wanna Love You Forever" that was originally sung by Celine Dion and resung by Jessica Simpson. I think Celine did a better job singing that song than Jessica did.

pontoon

07-23-2002, 04:29 PM

And I guess a lot of you 'yougsters' wouldn't understand about 'art' and using that 'art' to make as MUCH money off it as you can!

By selling songs to commercials (IMO) cheapens the art of songwriting to the point of mediocrity!

Integrity meant something years ago. But I guess if you can write a hit song, and 2 weeks later it's selling hot dogs...you could care less!

But the point of my anger is the fact that this thread was treated like a moronic statement from someone who doesnt have a million posts, that can't voice an opinion on your 'precious' board! :p

And my opinion of that 'other thread' only surfaced to make a 'point'! I did't mean to offend anyone by THAT statement...opinions are like, well you know!

pontoon :(

Hollow

07-23-2002, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
It's called a 'thread'! :rolleyes:

I'm soliciting opinions from baby boomers on the subject of selling music for commercials! Isn't that what this site is for? It certainly has more content than SOME of the posts I've seen around here...like "Here's a picture of my room"! Pah-lease! I thought that thread was a bit silly...but you didn't see me going in there and making comments like yours!

If you have no opinions on the subject...then why bother answering this 'thread'?

Isn't this the 'chit chat' section? Or because I'm not a 'giddy school-girl', I can't solicit opinions on things?

<< I'm MAD at the artists I grew up listening to! >>

NOW I'm mad at you too!

pontoon :mad:
Holy flip, i asked a question. You dont hafta blow up.

pontoon

07-23-2002, 04:41 PM

You did not JUST ask me a question!

You questioned the point of my thread!

Now I'VE seen threads that I really didn't get the point of...but you don't see ME answering with that kinda attitude!

No opinions on the subject? Then ya coulda just moved on...instead of that remark!

pontoon :(

Jinny Girl

07-23-2002, 04:46 PM

Well since your so much older and know everything, you must know that MOST NOT ALL people out there are looking to make money. I mean how many times have you heard "I wanna be rich and famouse!" MAYBE they are HONEST people WHO really DO care about the ARTISTIC side of WRITING their own music, but how do YOU know!? HAVE YOU EVER ****ING MET THEM!? Have you ever asked them why they did it??? No, so why worry about it. If the musics good, listen.

Hollow

07-23-2002, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
You did not JUST ask me a question!

You questioned the point of my thread!

Now I'VE seen threads that I really didn't get the point of...but you don't see ME answering with that kinda attitude!

No opinions on the subject? Then ya coulda just moved on...instead of that remark!

pontoon :(
ok.....i asked what the point of the message was its not like i insulted ne1!!!!!!

Jinny Girl

07-23-2002, 05:27 PM

dude poontoghnrejghbre whatever are you on any medication? If not, you should be.

pontoon

07-23-2002, 05:28 PM

...I'll just start answering threads with "um....what was the point of that", and see how many friends I make!

<< Well since your so much older and know everything, you must know that MOST NOT ALL people out there are looking to make money. I mean how many times have you heard "I wanna be rich and famouse!" MAYBE they are HONEST people WHO really DO care about the ARTISTIC side of WRITING their own music, but how do YOU know!? HAVE YOU EVER ****ING MET THEM!? Have you ever asked them why they did it??? No, so why worry about it. If the musics good, listen. >>

Yeah...I HAVE ****ing met some of them! And if you're shallow enough to make a great song, only to let some corporation have it to sell things, I feel sorry for you!! That's NOT art...it's called 'selling out' to make a buck! You might as well be writing jingles for Burger King! Now THAT'S art! :rolleyes:

pontoon :p

pontoon

07-23-2002, 05:31 PM

Oh THAT'S nice! Are you trying to bait me into a flame war?

pontoon :p

laceyinthesky

07-23-2002, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
Boy...that 'rap' thread sure got me going!

Now I've got a bone to pick with all the 'Classic Rock' artists I grew up with!

The Who
The Beatles
Hendrix
Bob Seger
The Doors
and there's LOTS more!!!

What do they ALL have in common? Be it the original songs, or a version 'covered' by someone else...they've all SOLD THEIR SONGS TO COMMERCIALS!

Seems like every time a commercial break graces my TV, I hear a classic tune selling something!

Things SURE have changed since the 60's and 70's...when 'artistic integrity' actually meant something!

The only one I have ANY respect for is John Mellencamp...who SWEARS he will never sell his songs for commercial purposes!

But Hendrix! Probably spinning in his grave! :guitar:

C'mon boomers...waddya think?

pontoon :cool:

Before you start getting all cynical about artists songs being in commercials, think about if the artists actually have a say in how their songs are used. If I'm not mistaken, isn't it the person who owns the copyrights to the songs that decides how, when, and by who they're used? For example, isn't Micheal Jackson the one who owns the copyrights to the Beatles songs... do any of the remaining Beatles get to chose what commercials their songs are in?

Jinny Girl

07-23-2002, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
...I'll just start answering threads with "um....what was the point of that", and see how many friends I make!

<< Well since your so much older and know everything, you must know that MOST NOT ALL people out there are looking to make money. I mean how many times have you heard "I wanna be rich and famouse!" MAYBE they are HONEST people WHO really DO care about the ARTISTIC side of WRITING their own music, but how do YOU know!? HAVE YOU EVER ****ING MET THEM!? Have you ever asked them why they did it??? No, so why worry about it. If the musics good, listen. >>

Yeah...I HAVE ****ing met some of them! And if you're shallow enough to make a great song, only to let some corporation have it to sell things, I feel sorry for you!! That's NOT art...it's called 'selling out' to make a buck! You might as well be writing jingles for Burger King! Now THAT'S art! :rolleyes:

And "famouse"? I can see YOU have a GREAT career in songwriting with THAT grammar! But these days...who'd notice!

pontoon :p

I'm not a song writer. None of what you said applys to me. Although I have written some bad classical-style songs on the piano which I dont ever intend to use as anything. I personally am not shallow enough to do that, but not everyone is me, not everyone thinks like I do, I don't know how they think Im not in their head I dont know why they do what they do, I can only assume LIKE you were doing by posting this. BTW ur right, I have no future in writing lyrics for any songs because I really am not good at it.

Hollow

07-23-2002, 05:38 PM

...I'll just start answering threads with "um....what was the point of that", and see how many friends I make!

OH MY GOD i dunno why ur makin a big deal about this. I wasnt tryin to be rude i was just askin a damn question, is there nething wrong w/ that? No, theres not.

Jinny Girl

07-23-2002, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Jennifer Lopez Forever

OH MY GOD i dunno why ur makin a big deal about this. I wasnt tryin to be rude i was just askin a damn question, is there nething wrong w/ that? No, theres not.

well u did sound a LITTLE rude but I mean... poon something seems to have taken it as like... a threat to bomb something because he made a pointless thread...

pontoon

07-23-2002, 05:47 PM

...when artists sell their work to other people (as in your Michael Jackson/ Beatles analogy) they HAVE TO know that their work could possibly be used for other things.

If I'm not mistaken, it was Paul McCartney who sold the Beatle's classic work to Jackson. And now I hear a cover version of 'Come Together' on TV selling stuff! McCartney can go 'pi** up a rope' for all I care!

Now here's a song I grew up with and LOVED...and now when I hear it I have to think of the product it sells, and NOT the memories it's given me! John Lennon would have fought McCartney 'tooth-and-nail' over THAT decision!

Everyone here just reinforces my point about music being so 'cheapened' these days. You don't seem to care that in 30 years the songs you used to listen to, had your first kiss to, drove a car for the first time to....are now associated with burger joints and diet cola!

And lacyinthesky...I thank you for (even though you might disagree with me) at least having a civil discussion with me on this subject.

Gotta go...medication time ya know! :lol:

pontoon :)

Titania

07-23-2002, 05:58 PM

Well, Im not a baby boomer but I was raised on my parents beatles albums and love that music more than any of todays junk.

I dont know what all the disagreeing was about on here because i dont see a thing wrong w/ this post. We have certainly had A LOT less meaningful ones! (may I remind everyone of a certain thread about nothing that went pretty darn far...200 some pages I believe....) so, its cool, everyone just CHILL
:)

Well, I personally dont like the idea of artists selling their music to commercials. Especially when the artist is deceased and isnt the one signing away their original works...
Yeah, it stinks.
I'd say more but thats the gist of my opinion and a HUGE thunderstorm is coming....so im outta here.....

pontoon

07-23-2002, 06:26 PM

I've been a member here for a while (although I don't have a gazillion posts and a 3 page signature line)...and have NEVER had a problem with anyone until now!

I'm also a Moderator at a VERY popular web-site's message board, and know a little about posting 'etiquette'...and the importance of keeping things civil and decent!

I thought this thread was of a fairly benign nature...but 'some' here just pushed my buttons with their flippant remarks and insensitivity! I mean...let's say you posted something about a subject you're passionate about, and you get "um....what was the point of that"?

I REALLY appreciate your support on this!

Is that thunder I hear? :lol:

pontoon ;)

Czas na Zywiec

07-23-2002, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by tootieismyfav

I happen to like that post. :)

Yes. This is Chit Chat. It is for off-topic posts. Posting pics is perfectly normal.

Czas na Zywiec

07-23-2002, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
(although I don't have a gazillion posts and a 3 page signature line)

TJ made a rule about signatures and they are all short now. I don't see any 3 page long signatures anymore.

laceyinthesky

07-23-2002, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
...when artists sell their work to other people (as in your Michael Jackson/ Beatles analogy) they HAVE TO know that their work could possibly be used for other things.

If I'm not mistaken, it was Paul McCartney who sold the Beatle's classic work to Jackson. And now I hear a cover version of 'Come Together' on TV selling stuff! McCartney can go 'pi** up a rope' for all I care!

Now here's a song I grew up with and LOVED...and now when I hear it I have to think of the product it sells, and NOT the memories it's given me! John Lennon would have fought McCartney 'tooth-and-nail' over THAT decision!

Everyone here just reinforces my point about music being so 'cheapened' these days. You don't seem to care that in 30 years the songs you used to listen to, had your first kiss to, drove a car for the first time to....are now associated with burger joints and diet cola!

And lacyinthesky...I thank you for (even though you might disagree with me) at least having a civil discussion with me on this subject.

Gotta go...medication time ya know! :lol:

pontoon :)

I don't remember the complete story, but wasn't the copyrights to the Beatles songs being sold at auction and McCartney didn't have enough money to buy them? I do agree with you, I'm not so fond of McCartney. I much more prefer Lennon...

And thankyou for starting a civil discussion... I've noticed a lack of them here, but have been too lazy to start one. It amazes me how someone here could make a thread entitled something along the lines of "This is a stupid post! Don't Reply!" yet still get hundreds of replies to it.

TJL

07-23-2002, 07:12 PM

It never really bothered me when a classic tune makes it's way to a commercial.
It doesn't lessen my respect of the artist if they "sell out."

Unfortunatley corporate sponsorship seems to be the new wave in music promotion. Most of the classic artists are now having their tours sponsored, much like the younger pop stars..

I guess it does ruin the integrity of the music or the artist...
It's the price we pay for living in this modern world.

pontoon

07-23-2002, 07:24 PM

For example...the new Austin Powers movie!

It ISN'T even out yet...and now I see commercials with Mike Myers (AS AUSTIN!) with Brittany Spears selling 'Diet Coke' or something like that!

It's as if the industry has only one thing on their mind! Never mind the bucks this movie will generate...as JUST a movie! But now...before it's even out, we're associating the film with a product!

It reminds me when George C. Scott refused to accept his Academy Award. (for 'Patton', I believe) It likened his 'art' to a contest...and thus ruining the integrity of his 'craft'!

Well, it IS a contest these days! Let's see how many buckets of chicken or 'Pampers' we can sell with this song or movie!

pontoon ;)

Mijada

07-23-2002, 07:26 PM

pontoon. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your post but I don't think very many Baby Boomers post here. The majority of us are teens and Generation Xers so naturally our opinions are probably going to differ with yours. The only Baby Boomer I know of off hand is Penny Lane. Anyway I don't see anything wrong with artists selling their songs to commercials if that's what they choose to do.

Kay Scarpetta

07-23-2002, 07:31 PM

Well I happen to agree with Pontoon.....seriously. It seems everytime you turn on a Mcdonalds commercial you hear Donna Summers...or well, you get my point.

Good thread, Pontoon!

pontoon

07-23-2002, 08:09 PM

<< I don't think very many Baby Boomers post here. >>

After all, this is a site that allows members to talk about 'classic' TV...and I've seen lots of posts from some who say they watched them BEFORE syndication!

I'm tempted to start a thread called 'Only Baby Boomers Reply' (just to see how many there REALLY are here), but I'd probably get a "um....what was the point of that"! :lol:

And thank you TOO Kay Scarpetta! It's nice to see there's others here that know where I'm comin' from with this! ;) I just hate my memories of these great tunes tainted with commercialism!

And call it irony...but part of my work description includes 'Commercial Copy-Writer'! :lol:

pontoon

Titania

07-23-2002, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
<< I don't think very many Baby Boomers post here. >>

After all, this is a site that allows members to talk about 'classic' TV...and I've seen lots of posts from some who say they watched them BEFORE syndication!

pontoon

storms over ;)
Ill admit I havent seen many baby boomers on here, probably because the teen crowd are the ones (especially during the summer) that have time to be on this site 24/7,
I would say there are NONE, they just as a whole post less frequently.

I can see some of your opinions about it being the artists choice- even though that isnt always the case when the selling happens post-mortum. But really, there is nothing worse than when your in the car and put in a CD with your favorite song on it and your date tells you "I heard that on a fast food commercial the other day...."

This is a little off topic but something of a similar nature that drives me insane....I hate the remakes that have been coming out in the past few years of older songs. In my opinion, if its good, just (in the beatles words) Let It Be!!!!!
(if I hear one more remake of American Pie by a modern artist Im going to scream!!)

Pitooey

07-23-2002, 08:37 PM

Pontoon............... I'm also a Boomer and when I first heard The Beatle song in a commercial selling Hot dogs or whatever I was pissed.

Today I heard my 5 year old daughter singing I'm gonna make you love me..... :music:
Yes I will....
Yes I will.... (An old Diana Ross tune) and my son asked me.... Where did my daughter get that song from? I told him that's a song from The Supremes. Later on the day...............

Lo and Behold........ I heard the tune again in Nickelodean. Now it's being sung by 4 girls in a new all girl band. (Similar to Boy bands of today) Well...................... What happened to creativity and writing your own songs??? :music:

DarleneIllyria

07-23-2002, 11:11 PM

I agree with Pontoon about older artists selling out. My guess why they do this is because they don't get their music played on music tv anymore. Hell, you'll be lucky to catch any music on a music channel. I do see it as selling out for commericials and stuff, but maybe they need the money?

The flip side of the coin is new artists. Look at Moby for example. He sold his songs for commericials and that's why he's a well heard artist of today.

Just my 2 cent :)

Jinny Girl

07-23-2002, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by JennyLee22
Pontoon............... I'm also a Boomer and when I first heard The Beatle song in a commercial selling Hot dogs or whatever I was pissed.

Today I heard my 5 year old daughter singing I'm gonna make you love me..... :music:
Yes I will....
Yes I will.... (An old Diana Ross tune) and my son asked me.... Where did my daughter get that song from? I told him that's a song from The Supremes. Later on the day...............

Lo and Behold........ I heard the tune again in Nickelodean. Now it's being sung by 4 girls in a new all girl band. (Similar to Boy bands of today) Well...................... What happened to creativity and writing your own songs??? :music:

Oh thats ok, I was probably the band play. They're the most hated of all pop artist, so its not like their remake is gonna be popular and outdo the originals (which never really happens)... the only reason their singing that is because they CANT write their own. Sorry but I HATE THAT BAND SOOOOO BAAAAAAD.

vienna waits

07-23-2002, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by JennyLee22
Pontoon............... I'm also a Boomer and when I first heard The Beatle song in a commercial selling Hot dogs or whatever I was pissed.

Today I heard my 5 year old daughter singing I'm gonna make you love me..... :music:
Yes I will....
Yes I will.... (An old Diana Ross tune) and my son asked me.... Where did my daughter get that song from? I told him that's a song from The Supremes. Later on the day...............

Lo and Behold........ I heard the tune again in Nickelodean. Now it's being sung by 4 girls in a new all girl band. (Similar to Boy bands of today) Well...................... What happened to creativity and writing your own songs??? :music:

Ya Dana's right.. thats Play. i haaaaaaaaaaaaaaate them.

Jinny Girl

07-23-2002, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by tootieismyfav

Ya Dana's right.. thats Play. i haaaaaaaaaaaaaaate them.

One day the'll grow up to have fake boobs, ass implants, and frizzy crimped blonde hair... DONT FORGET THE COLLAGEN INJECTIONS! Oh and the hot male backup dancers who gets one of em pregnant... Oh I can just see the horror that lied before them now... I can smell the defeat... I can feel the downfall... I can taste the hotdog...

Mysty Eyes

07-24-2002, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by pontoon
If I'm not mistaken, it was Paul McCartney who sold the Beatle's classic work to Jackson. And now I hear a cover version of 'Come Together' on TV selling stuff! McCartney can go 'pi** up a rope' for all I care!

Originally posted by laceyinthesky
I don't remember the complete story, but wasn't the copyrights to the Beatles songs being sold at auction and McCartney didn't have enough money to buy them? I do agree with you, I'm not so fond of McCartney. I much more prefer Lennon...

Didn't it really happen way back when The Beatles thought that they could run a business all by themselves (Apple)? They eventually realized that they knew nothing about business. But in all that mess they ended up selling all the rights to the Lennon-McCartney library (note: not Harrison). Before they realized what hit them, they had lost their own songs.

Then, after various changes of ownership (including, I believe, ATV), Michael Jackson ended up buying the songs. And started using them in commercials. It was quite some time later, long after Lennon had died, that McCartney and Yoko Ono were able to purchase back some percentage of the rights, but Jackson still has control over usage in commercials.

As far as hearing these old classics in ads... well it is jarring. But then we also hear old classics of other generations as well (eg. Key Largo, Glenn Miller tunes, etc.).

I remember reading years ago about Carly Simon allowing her song "Anticipation" to be used in a catsup commercial. She said that she had agreed to the usage because she had just had her first baby, and was feeling quite down and depressed. She couldn't imagine that she would ever again be able to write songs. When they asked for the rights, she was flattered and agreed.

So there can be all kinds of reasons for agreeing to the usage. And often the decision is not in the control of the artist.

Bootsy Whoosh

07-24-2002, 01:16 PM

FINALLY! An intetesting thread! Don't worry pontoon, I back you 100% on the points that this is NOT a "pointless thread" as some believe, and it was rude and disrespectful to question the point of it. If you don't get the point....then...I just don't know what's wrong with you.

Anyhoo, I am not a baby boomer, but I hope it's ok to reply to this anyway :)

On the whole, I do not like the practice of selling songs to commercials. Like pontoon said, it replaces memories of your life with memories of products. Whenever I hear my favorite big band tune (Sing Sing Sing) I think of Chips Ahoy cookies. Whenever I hear Start Me Up I think of Microsoft. etc..etc..etc...

However, I also agree with the people who are pointing out that it is often not the artist's decision. I don't know much about the whole Beatles/MJ fiasco, but one band I do know alot about is Aerosmith, and I know that they do not own the rights to pretty much all of their music, because before they made it big, and when they were young and stupid, they got hooked into contracts with recording companies that were set up so the record company would own the music. I suspect this is the case with alot of artists.

One thing I can say pontoon....personally, in my mind, it is better for older artists to sell their music to commercials either because they need the money or because they have low self-esteem and felt flattered, or whatever (it still sucks though)....than to be like alot of new artists today who sell their music to commercials as a way to propel their initial success. (Someone said Moby did this...and also that one song "Days go by and still I think about you..." was in a Mitshubishi commercial for like a year before I ever knew who the band was or heard the song on the radio.)

TibbyTibby2

07-24-2002, 02:51 PM

welll alrighty then

pontoon

07-24-2002, 03:21 PM

And ya know...if it came to the point of having to feed, clothe, and put a roof over the head of their families, I say GO FOR IT! I SURE can't see someone suffering if there's a way out of that by selling a song to commercials...although I'm still sad to see (and hear) it happening, I dont wanna see anyone go hungry!

However, if some of these artists didn't squander their earnings on drugs and extravagances, or MAKE such lousy deals in a 'drugged out stupor' and get ripped off by greedy managers...maybe they WOULDN'T have to 'sell out' in their 'golden' years!

And as far as Paul McCartney goes...isn't he one of the richest people in the world? He was always very shrewd...and I find it hard to believe he would sell out the Beatles because he "needed the money"!

And addressing the sad story of artists who die...and the greedy family members who sell complete libraries of work, as in what Al (I think that's his first name) Hendrix did to his son Jimi. SHAME ON YOU ALL! Do you really think Jimi would have been proud hearing 'Purple Haze' (or whatever they're using) to sell Buicks? Did he not bequeath (at least all or part) his fortune to his family? How much money do they need? Is his 'art' that meaningless?

Thanx again for all the support I've gotten on this subject! ;)

pontoon

Tammy

07-24-2002, 03:34 PM

Artists putting their songs in commercials has never bothered me. As a matter of fact, a little over a year ago some brand of beer used a song by my favorite band, The Monkees, on one of their commericials and I was just thrilled that they were getting airplay where many people would hear it...not just on some show that you only know about by watching tvguide.com or checking the fan message boards at least once a day. Maybe its different when you're a fan of something else, I have found that Monkee fans are unique :cool:

Also I think the original reply was rude, a post that starts a serious discussion is not pointless.

XoVanillaRain90oX

07-24-2002, 04:10 PM

I dont care much about Paul, but he is awesome in concert. :D

They put their songs in commercials cause they want more money, BUT THEY DON'T NEED IT! I think.

Kitt

07-24-2002, 08:39 PM

First, in defense of the minority over the tyranny of the majority...good thread Pontoon. Sorry you had to waste energy defending your right to post a perfectly understandable post, instead of talking about the post itself.

Something is being lost, I think, in how some of you are answering the question. The question isn't, does it bother you that ANY popular songs are used in commercials, the question is, does it bother you that some of the greatest and most classic songs of this or any era are cheapened in commercials. I don't give a fig about what becomes of most popular songs from any by-gone era or this present era. If the "artist" or whomever sells it for a commercial, it won't sound any less trivial than it already did. There's a short-list of songs that are or will be particularly meaningful in some way to most people that I wish would not be used for commercials. I'm pretty sure that's what Pontoon had in mind with this post.

Pitooey

07-24-2002, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
And ya know...if it came to the point of having to feed, clothe, and put a roof over the head of their families, I say GO FOR IT! I SURE can't see someone suffering if there's a way out of that by selling a song to commercials...although I'm still sad to see (and hear) it happening, I dont wanna see anyone go hungry!

However, if some of these artists didn't squander their earnings on drugs and extravagances, or MAKE such lousy deals in a 'drugged out stupor' and get ripped off by greedy managers...maybe they WOULDN'T have to 'sell out' in their 'golden' years!

And as far as Paul McCartney goes...isn't he one of the richest people in the world? He was always very shrewd...and I find it hard to believe he would sell out the Beatles because he "needed the money"!

pontoon I agree with the above quote. And Paul is Filthy rich... Why did he sell the rights? He must've been on drugs.

Bootsy Whoosh

07-25-2002, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
However, if some of these artists didn't squander their earnings on drugs and extravagances, or MAKE such lousy deals in a 'drugged out stupor' and get ripped off by greedy managers...maybe they WOULDN'T have to 'sell out' in their 'golden' years!

I agree with the comment of not liking to see stars squander their money, and not having much pity for them if they do, but as for the making bad deals thing, you imply everyone who makes bad deals is on drugs. Well since this seems to be in reply to my comment about Aerosmith making bad deals, I can say with pretty good certainty that they were NOT on drugs when they made these deals. They were simply young and stupid and eager to be successful, so they were willing to live with the record company's terms. Of course I cannot know this for sure, but when the whole band is disarmingly honest about their past drug abuse, I don't see why they would lie about when they started using, and they didn't really start getting cracked out until after their first album, and even then they weren't too bad. It was after the 3rd and 4th album that things got really out of control drug wise.

So anyhoo, my point is pontoon, I don't understand why you seem so absolutely ready to crucify all the bands and seem to be unwilling to lay blame on the industry and the REAL people who control it: the greedy CEOs and record companies....because even if we make the absurd assumption that all people who get bad record deals are on drugs, it's still the industry that is taking advantage of them and exploiting their art for profit....

pontoon

07-25-2002, 01:39 PM

<< I don't understand why you seem so absolutely ready to crucify all the bands and seem to be unwilling to lay blame on the industry and the REAL people who control it: >>

NOBODY forces a pen into these people's hands ands MAKES them sign their lives away! Wouldn't you be just a 'tad' suspicious signing a document with print so small it can hardly be seen? "Let's see...we'll give you each $50,000 dollars, but don't worry about the part that says we OWN everything you do for the next 30 years! No problem...we'll work that out 'later'! OH...Did I mention F I F T Y G R A N D!"

<< The question isn't, does it bother you that ANY popular songs are used in commercials, the question is, does it bother you that some of the greatest and most classic songs of this or any era are cheapened in commercials. >>

I'm not selfish! It's just not MY favorites I worry about. I'm not a Celine Dion fan...but if I heard a tune of hers selling soap or something, I'd STILL shake my head and yell 'SELL-OUT' in my head to myself! It just seems to cheapen the art of to the point of..."Well, if it doesn't get much airplay, I can always sell it to 'Subaru'!" But YES...it probably angers me a little more when it's something I've grown to love over the years!

<< you imply everyone who makes bad deals is on drugs. Well since this seems to be in reply to my comment about Aerosmith making bad deals >>

I didn't mention, nor alluded to Aerosmith in this...

<< However, if some of these artists didn't squander their earnings on drugs and extravagances, or MAKE such lousy deals in a 'drugged out stupor' and get ripped off by greedy managers...maybe they WOULDN'T have to 'sell out' in their 'golden' years! >>

...and you'll see I said 'some' not 'everyone' of these artists! But if anyone deserves the 'Golden Syringe' award, it would be Aerosmith! One of my favorite bands growing up BTW!

And LET'S TALK about Aerosmith! The song 'Just Push Play'...a recent hit of theirs, selling SUV's now if I'm not mistaken! Forget about the 'memory' factor with THAT one! It landed on a commercial SO fast, it left no time for ANYONE to develop memories from it! It's now just another commercial 'jingle' IMO!

pontoon :guitar:

Bootsy Whoosh

07-25-2002, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
And LET'S TALK about Aerosmith! The song 'Just Push Play'...a recent hit of theirs, selling SUV's now if I'm not mistaken! Forget about the 'memory' factor with THAT one! It landed on a commercial SO fast, it left no time for ANYONE to develop memories from it! It's now just another commercial 'jingle' IMO!

pontoon :guitar:

Yes, that is sad. It's selling Dodge trucks, BTW. Aerosmith signed some deal with Dodge, wherein Dodge sponsors their tour in exchange for using some songs in their commercials. It does suck...but as I never was a huge fan of that particular song it doesn't bother me too much other than as a principle.

But we will have to disagree about the evil tactics of the recording industry, because you will never convince me that they aren't scumbums. I'm not saying the artists shouldn't take any responsibility for their own actions, but I will never ever in a million years say that the recording industry is not largely responsible for the crappy state of music.

Mysty Eyes

07-25-2002, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by pontoon
NOBODY forces a pen into these people's hands ands MAKES them sign their lives away! Wouldn't you be just a 'tad' suspicious signing a document with print so small it can hardly be seen? "Let's see...we'll give you each $50,000 dollars, but don't worry about the part that says we OWN everything you do for the next 30 years! No problem...we'll work that out 'later'! OH...Did I mention F I F T Y G R A N D!"
Not to belabor this, but when talking about these particular artists (ie The Beatles and others of that era, and a few years after), you need to remember that kids (yes, they are usually young when they start out) were no where near as business-savvy as the youth of today. It would probably never occur to them to be suspicious of a contract. Hey, these were "official" documents drawn up by experts, so why doubt them?

Even today, starry-eyed kids can be duped into signing away most everything. It was especially true years ago.

As far a stars signing current contracts for sponsorship deals: hey, what's wrong with that? Why can't Aerosmith, or any other artist, write songs specifically for an ad? It's quite a lucrative engagement. Yes, it is about money in this case; they get paid quite well for their songs. The reason? Because people like me and you notice the ads, and remember the product. That's the whole point of advertising.

Kitt

07-25-2002, 04:58 PM

To Mysty eyes, I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't know why you say the youth of today are MUCH more business saavy. I've heard recent horror stories of bands and artists being ripped off by managers and the industry just like in the Beatles era. One of the very few examples I can think of of someone who is business saavy would be Madonna and she starrted out in the early eighties.

Bootsy Whoosh

07-25-2002, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by Mysty Eyes
As far a stars signing current contracts for sponsorship deals: hey, what's wrong with that? Why can't Aerosmith, or any other artist, write songs specifically for an ad? It's quite a lucrative engagement. Yes, it is about money in this case; they get paid quite well for their songs. The reason? Because people like me and you notice the ads, and remember the product. That's the whole point of advertising.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with artists writing songs specifically for ads. Even though I don't like the commercial, I don't give a rat's butt if Britney Spears wants to sing about Pepsi. The thing that pontoon objects to is using existing songs in commercials. The song Dodge used from Aerosmith was not specifically written for Dodge, unfortunately, but was taken off their most recent album.

But I agree with everything else you said, Mysty, about kids not being business savvy. Kids and alot of people are just plain gullible sometimes, especially young people who have trouble envisioning the future. Alot of younger people live in the moment and don't think about what the future may bring. Is it their fault? Partially. But they are still being taken advantage of by a behemoth industry with alot of power that most people can't afford (literally and figuratively) to take on.

Bootsy Whoosh

07-25-2002, 05:02 PM

Rockapella722

07-25-2002, 05:41 PM

There's not really much left to say on this topic, but I agree with about 95% of what pontoon said.

Mysty Eyes

07-25-2002, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by kittflynn
To Mysty eyes, I agree with a lot of what you said but I don't know why you say the youth of today are MUCH more business saavy. I've heard recent horror stories of bands and artists being ripped off by managers and the industry just like in the Beatles era. One of the very few examples I can think of of someone who is business saavy would be Madonna and she starrted out in the early eighties.
:confused: Well, I DIDN'T say that today's youth are "MUCH more" savvy. I didn't say that at all. What I said was that the artists of the 60s, etc. "were no where near as business-savvy as the youth of today." And I am fairly confident that that is true. If nothing else TV, film, and the internet keep most people more informed than people were in the past.

I went on to say "Even today, starry-eyed kids can be duped into signing away most everything." So I guess you really agree with me, since I didn't actually say what you believe I did.

Again, as far as using songs from new albums in ads... yeah, it's a form of selling out. But these new songs can't really be called "classics." And can you blame someone for making the bucks? The sponsor's going to buy the song from someone, after all. And as long as we've got to hear the music in the ads it may as well be good music, don't you think?

DarleneIllyria

07-25-2002, 09:05 PM

Mysty Eyes

07-25-2002, 09:12 PM

Oops. Double post.

Mysty Eyes

07-25-2002, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Jenny
Madonna is a prime example of a good business woman. I can only remember 2 occasions that I heard Madonna's songs for a commericial. One was the MTV vote ad that was shown in 1990 (I think) and she was doing a little rap skit with her song "Vogue". The other was something about a vacation spot that played "Holiday" in the background, but it wasn't Madonna singing. Yeah, she is a good business woman though.
Actually, Madonna had a huge contract with Pepsi many years ago. They dropped her FAST after she put out the controversial video for "Like A Prayer." I imagine she might very well have used album cuts in those ads. But we'll never know.

Kitt

07-25-2002, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by Mysty Eyes

:confused: Well, I DIDN'T say that today's youth are "MUCH more" savvy. I didn't say that at all. What I said was that the artists of the 60s, etc. "were no where near as business-savvy as the youth of today." And I am fairly confident that that is true. If nothing else TV, film, and the internet keep most people more informed than people were in the past.

I went on to say "Even today, starry-eyed kids can be duped into signing away most everything." So I guess you really agree with me, since I didn't actually say what you believe I did.Well, you did say some of todays youth are starry eyed so we agree on that but I don't see a difference between saying yesterdays youth were "no where near as savvy" as todays youth, as opposed to saying, todays youth are"much more savvy" then yesterdays youth. What's the difference? The subject is musicians making business decisions pitted up against agents and conglomerats. I don't think the playing field has leveled much over the years in that specific game.

DarleneIllyria

07-25-2002, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by Mysty Eyes

Actually, Madonna had a huge contract with Pepsi many years ago. They dropped her FAST after she put out the controversial video for "Like A Prayer." I imagine she might very well have used album cuts in those ads. But we'll never know.

I totally forgot about the Pepsi one! As many times as I've heard that one her Behind the Music and all the Madonna specials, you would've thought I'd remembered that one!