A Widowed Mother Trying To Raise A Child in the 70's & Not Considered Groundbreaking

[Brian Damage]

The sitcom in question is 'Phyllis' which debuted in September of 1975 from MTM Enterprises. It was followed by a similar yet quite different sitcom called 'One Day At A Time' in December of '75. Phyllis was a widow left with nothing while Ann Romano was divorced. Why is one considered groundbreaking (ODAAT) and the other not? (Phyllis)

[Zoneboy]

My only guess would be that "Phyllis" wasn't the first series to feature a widowed mom trying to raise a child. Other than that, I have no idea.

[Brian Damage]

My only guess would be that "Phyllis" wasn't the first series to feature a widowed mom trying to raise a child. Other than that, I have no idea.


Which was the first?

[Zoneboy]

Which was the first?

Julia was before Phyllis but I'm not sure if it was the first.

[Brian Damage]

Julia was before Phyllis but I'm not sure if it was the first.



Hmmm, so I guess Julia was a widower raising kids? I know 'Alice' was as well but that started in 1976. Yet One Day At A Time is still the one considered "groundbreaking"

[PracTz]

I think there were widows and widowers raising kids on TV as far back as the 1950's so "Phyllis" was far from groundbreaking here. Also, considering that Bess was in her late teens when Lars died, exactly how much 'raising' did Phyllis have left to do? If anything, Bess seemed more grounded that Phyllis [no surprise].

Then, too, the show's opening/closing credits focused entirely on Phyllis gallivanting solo around the Frisco tourist spots without Bess anywhere in sight [or thought ?] and even the "MTM" shots were entirely preoccupied by Phyllis alone so it seemed evident re the credits that the show's primary focus was supposed to be how Phyllis was going to get along in a new city rather than how she was going to raise a nearly grown child on her own.
Maybe it wasn't Cloris's intention but the credits seemed incredibly myopic re Phyllis with none of the other regulars even glimpsed at in the opening credits and only clips of the other performers in the proceeding show shown at the closing credits. I mean even "MTM" [starring exec producer Grant Tinker's then-wife] soon included other performers in its opening/closing regular credits as did "Rhoda" but never "Phyllis". But then, too, Phyllis had always been all about her. :lol:

[Brian Damage]

I think there were widows and widowers raising kids on TV as far back as the 1950's so "Phyllis" was far from groundbreaking here. Also, considering that Bess was in her late teens when Lars died, exactly how much 'raising' did Phyllis have left to do? If anything, Bess seemed more grounded that Phyllis [no surprise].

Then, too, the show's opening/closing credits focused entirely on Phyllis gallivanting solo around the Frisco tourist spots without Bess anywhere in sight [or thought ?] and even the "MTM" shots were entirely preoccupied by Phyllis alone so it seemed evident re the credits that the show's primary focus was supposed to be how Phyllis was going to get along in a new city rather than how she was going to raise a nearly grown child on her own.
Maybe it wasn't Cloris's intention but the credits seemed incredibly myopic re Phyllis with none of the other regulars even glimpsed at in the opening credits and only clips of the other performers in the proceeding show shown at the closing credits. I mean even "MTM" [starring exec producer Grant Tinker's then-wife] soon included other performers in its opening/closing regular credits as did "Rhoda" but never "Phyllis". But then, too, Phyllis had always been all about her. :lol:


Interesting, do you think that was Cloris Leachman's doing with the credits or was it just a way to show the character as being self-centered?

[PracTz]

Interesting, do you think that was Cloris Leachman's doing with the credits or was it just a way to show the character as being self-centered?

I'm not sure if Cloris herself lobbied for said credits or that this was something Grant Tinker,etc. foisted on her. However; it sure did achieve the goal of showing how self-centered Phyllis was [as if any viewer who'd seen her for more than five seconds could have had any shadow of a doubt]!:lol:

[Brian Damage]

I'm not sure if Cloris herself lobbied for said credits or that this was something Grant Tinker,etc. foisted on her. However; it sure did achieve the goal of showing how self-centered Phyllis was [as if any viewer who'd seen her for more than five seconds could have had any shadow of a doubt]!:lol:

I still think it is a big mystery as to how or why Phyllis was chosen to get a spin-off???

[PracTz]

I still think it is a big mystery as to how or why Phyllis was chosen to get a spin-off???

Maybe because no one wanted to imagine Mary still having to be in that house with Phyllis sans Rhoda as a buffer. :whatever:

[Brian Damage]

Maybe because no one wanted to imagine Mary still having to be in that house with Phyllis sans Rhoda as a buffer. :whatever:

Phyllis was being seen less and less and then all of a sudden, she gets her own show. Very bizarre. lol

[robyrob]

i think what was different about ODAAT was that it was one of the first shows to feature a divorced family - something that was still pretty much taboo back then

[Brian Damage]

i think what was different about ODAAT was that it was one of the first shows to feature a divorced family - something that was still pretty much taboo back then


I suppose you are right, because even Mary Tyler Moore wasn't allowed to be divorced.

[robyrob]

I suppose you are right, because even Mary Tyler Moore wasn't allowed to be divorced.
i know that I really identified with the show back then because my parents were divorced when I was very young and i was literally the only kid in my grade that had divorced parents

[Brian Damage]

i know that I really identified with the show back then because my parents were divorced when I was very young and i was literally the only kid in my grade that had divorced parents


Wow, sorry to hear that :(

[Kristen]

I think part of the reason people don't consider Phyllis to be groundbreaking is that it didn't run as long as TMTMS, and it wasn't as memorable. As has been stated on these boards before, Phyllis just wasn't somebody you could build a show around. She was much better as a side character, IMO. And since TMTMS is a show that's remembered as being groundbreaking, Phyllis is kind of in the shadow of that.

[Brian Damage]

I think part of the reason people don't consider Phyllis to be groundbreaking is that it didn't run as long as TMTMS, and it wasn't as memorable. As has been stated on these boards before, Phyllis just wasn't somebody you could build a show around. She was much better as a side character, IMO. And since TMTMS is a show that's remembered as being groundbreaking, Phyllis is kind of in the shadow of that.


While I have you Kristen, maybe you'll know the answer to this question...

If Phyllis had a reduced role on MTM, then why was she chosen as a spin-off character?

[Kristen]

While I have you Kristen, maybe you'll know the answer to this question...

If Phyllis had a reduced role on MTM, then why was she chosen as a spin-off character?
My guess is, they saw the success of Rhoda, and said, "Hey, let's give our other secondary female a sitcom!" Not the brightest idea ever, IMO. But I guess you can't blame them for trying!

And BTW, I'm not knocking Chloris in any way. I think she did a wonderful job on TMTMS. I just don't think the character worked well on her own.

[Brian Damage]

My guess is, they saw the success of Rhoda, and said, "Hey, let's give our other secondary female a sitcom!" Not the brightest idea ever, IMO. But I guess you can't blame them for trying!

And BTW, I'm not knocking Chloris in any way. I think she did a wonderful job on TMTMS. I just don't think the character worked well on her own.


I hear ya...

It makes sense what you're saying. The only other thing I wonder is, if she reduced her workload on MTM to star in movies, then why did she accept the show?