Was Moving 'Laverne & Shirley' to L.A. Desperation Or Very Much Needed?

[Brian Damage]

Was it a sign of desperation to try and save the show or did the Milwaukee setting grow stale and needed some changes? OR should they have just stayed where they were?

[catlover79]

Desperation!!!

[dlemond]

I don't know why they moved the location.

Were the ratings suffering?

Completely unnecessary in my opinion.

If they wanted a change they could have just changed apartments or jobs or something else.

Just keep the Pizza Bowl!

[Jude The Obscure]

Unnecessary and a big mistake. Happy Days never felt the need to change locales (thank goodness)--why did L&S? To me the show followed the path of The Lucy Show and when that show moved to California--it really went down the tubes.

[cocytus]

Very much a desperation move...and frankly, ironic, as it was always filmed in Hollywood anyway.

[Marvo301]

Unnecessary and a big mistake. Happy Days never felt the need to change locales (thank goodness)--why did L&S? To me the show followed the path of The Lucy Show and when that show moved to California--it really went down the tubes.
The difference is that in the case of "The Lucy Show" the change in locales was motivated by the departure of a cast member (Vivian Vance) from the series. L&S had no such motivation for their change of locale.

[TVFactFan]

Maybe they felt it was time to seperate the link between Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley after 4 years.

[shotzette]

I think that desperation had a role in it, but they had pretty much exhausted all of the Milwaukee-centric story lines by Season 4. The move the California gave them maybe one more seasons of decent episode, but they show was pretty much over creatively by then. I think they should have planned their exit strategy in Season 5 and made Season 6 the last and wrapped up all of the loose ends. The show deserved a far much better ending than it got.

Happy Days should have ended earlier as well. When Ron Howard and Ralph Malph left, it should have been the end.

[Mars788]

Desperation, and foolish too...

[rjt100]

First, you can't compare Laverne And Shirley to The Lucy Show. Lavernie & Shirley was a weak carbon copy of The Lucy Show. When The Lucy Show changed formats it was because Vivian Vance quit, but, the final three seasons of The Lucy Show fared even better that the first three with Vivian Vance. The Lucy Show never fell out of the top ten and since Lucille Ball was the star of the show she was able to go it alone and win two Emmys as Best Actress In A Comedy Series and end her series in 1968 at no. 2 in the Nielsen Ratings. ABC thought Laverne & Shirley was able to go it alone by moving it to a new night (Thursday) but the series failed miserably. Then by mid-season ABC moved Laverne & Shirley to Monday nights and the show did worse. It showed that Laverne & Shirley was a timeslot hit. It depended on Happy Days as a leadin. When Cindy Williams quit the show in its' final season; the show was renamed Laverne with just Penny Marshall. Penny didn't have the star caliber to carry the show and it was cancelled.:D

[treky]

yes, I think it was a "desperation" move.

[lucyandethel]

I attended a writer's symposium in Los Angeles about 10 years ago and one of the guest lecturers was a guy who had written several "L&S" episodes. He was asked that question and basically said the move was in an effort to keep the material fresh. The writers felt stifled with the setting in Milwaukee and moved the setting to California in hopes of providing a world of fresh material. He stated the move was a major mistake because it dramatically changed the Laverne & Shirley characters. He gave the example that it was like taking Ralph Kramden (The Honeymooners) from being a NYC bus driver to a struggling actor in California. It just is not the same character the audience came to love.

He ended by saying that "L&S" is a perfect example of when something isn't broke, don't try and fix it. Don't try to dramatically alter the lead character in a popular series, or "take them out of their element". Nothing will kill a show faster. I agree.

[treky]

true-just ask the producers of "JOEY"

[jehobden]

Unnecessary and a big mistake. Happy Days never felt the need to change locales (thank goodness)--why did L&S? To me the show followed the path of The Lucy Show and when that show moved to California--it really went down the tubes.

I also see a comparison between L&S and TLS in changing locales. I know it was for different reasons, but the move to CA gave an excuse to bring in celebrities, at least those who were big back in the time. Once Troy Donahue appeared, and as L&S asked, he took a picture of them, but they neglected to tell him they wanted him in the picture with them.

The funniest L&S CA-based ep that I remember had Lenny & Squiggy as contestants on The Dating Game, with Jim Lange making a cameo appearance as host, and the female contestant, played by future Mr. Belvedere mom Ilene Graff, yelled out "If you make me go out with him [Squiggy], I'll sue!".

It seemed that when the show moved to CA, it also jumped forward in time a few years. Happy Days, and I assume L&S, had an approx. 18-year difference between the current year when they were set and the year when the shows were made, meaning that in the HD/L&S world, it was about 1962 when L&S moved to CA in 1980. Instead, L&S jumped forward to 1965 and redid the opening "Happy New Year" banner to 1966 & 1967 for the show's last 2 seasons. This was done maybe to take advantage of the emerging hippie scene or Beatlemania (L&S had a lifesize cardboard cutout of The Beatles in their CA apt.).

[tmac81s]

It all started when ABC made the foolish decision to move Laverne & Shirley from it's established Tuesday night slot, to Thursdays. They were hoping L&S would help it's Thursday night ratings, while giving the new show "Angie" L&S's old Tuesday slot would be good for that show too. This plan failed miserably, as L&S went from being TV's #1 show to ending the season at #39. (I'm not sure what its competition was.) ABC cancelled "Angie" and moved L&S back to Tuesdays; it was during this time that they decided the show should change locations (to help give "fresh" ideas.)

Personally, I thought they could have stayed in Milwaukee and maybe just changed where they lived? Maybe get promotions at work or new jobs? It does seem odd to have the whole cast move out to L.A.

Overall, the California episodes were OK, the series was always at its best when they had the girls doing the comedy they did best. I never liked the "musical" shows (and they had those in Milwaukee too), and although there were a few episodes without Shirley that were pretty funny (the episode where Sgt. Plout has her baby being one of them), it wasn't the same. Even Laverne was rarely seen by the end of the series (and it was still bringing in top 30 ratings).

[WalrusIsPaul]

I'm a fan of both the Milwaukee and California episodes, i like them both. Theres a bunch of California ones i like a bunch of Milwaukee ones i like as well as shows from both i don't like

[LittleRickyII]

When Cindy Williams quit the show in its' final season; the show was renamed Laverne with just Penny Marshall.

Actually, that isn't true. Even with Cindy Williams no longer on the show, the title remained Laverne & Shirley. They changed the opening credits so that Cindy Williams didn't appear, but still kept the title. I remember this well and remember thinking that it was odd to continue calling it Laverne & Shirley when there was no Shirley. But that's what they did. This is what the final opening credits looked like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hkGxU8slBg&feature=related

[tmac81s]

Actually, that isn't true. Even with Cindy Williams no longer on the show, the title remained Laverne & Shirley. They changed the opening credits so that Cindy Williams didn't appear, but still kept the title. I remember this well and remember thinking that it was odd to continue calling it Laverne & Shirley when there was no Shirley. But that's what they did. This is what the final opening credits looked like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hkGxU8slBg&feature=related



They WANTED to change it to simply "Laverne," but Penny Marshall was very much opposed to this. She didn't want it to be perceived that she'd forced Cindy out of the show. So we were left with a show called "Laverne & Shirley" with no Shirley after the second episode! (Ironically she is in the theme song--kind of. In the final shot with Laverne in the large vat of beer, it's Shirley under the surface that's pulling Laverne down! :lol: I always thought maybe this was done on purpose, kind of a way to have her still in it, but not seen.)

Near the end of the season, it would have been more appropriate to call the show "Laverne & Shirley's Friends," since even Laverne wasn't a big part of a lot of the episodes.

[biffbronson]

Personally I would have preferred the setting to remain in Milwaukee, and have more crossovers with the Happy Days cast. But regardless, having good characters, good acting, and good scripts was most important. At least some of the time, I think the Calif. episodes did deliver -- to me, the show remained worthwhile, especially when Penny & Cindy got to perform physical comedy...!

[tmac81s]

ditto that. Penny and Cindy did some of the best physical comedy ever! Those were always the best episodes, in both Milwaukee and CA.

[Guy Incognito]

I think the move was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation: realistically, the series (with the original premise) only had a shelf life of about four years anyhow. By Season 5, the girls were approaching 30 and still talking about "voh-dee-oh-doh" and sewing "L" onto their shirts and sleeping with Boo-boo Kitty...and honestly, it was getting to be a bit sad and a little creepy. They needed to "grow up" and move beyond the basement apartment and their old high school buddies. Think about it: if you're pushing thirty, how many of your old friends from grade school or high school do you still hang out with on a nightly basis? So I do think that the move (and the time warp, which is something I never noticed before but makes sense) was just part of the necessary evolution of the series.

However, the big mistake was moving the ENTIRE CAST west, which defeated the whole purpose of the change. So L&S were still hanging out with their childhood friends and mooching food from Mr. DeFazio and essentially living in a perpetual state of arrested development, only now they were doing so in sunny California in between increasingly unlikely encounters with '60s era "celebrities". Perhaps the producers were leery of making a complete fresh start with Penny and Cindy alone, but if that's the case then they should have stayed in Milwaukee for the remaining three years.

[Dr. Thong]

I think that desperation had a role in it, but they had pretty much exhausted all of the Milwaukee-centric story lines by Season 4. The move the California gave them maybe one more seasons of decent episode, but they show was pretty much over creatively by then. I think they should have planned their exit strategy in Season 5 and made Season 6 the last and wrapped up all of the loose ends. The show deserved a far much better ending than it got.

Happy Days should have ended earlier as well. When Ron Howard and Ralph Malph left, it should have been the end.

Agreed, agreed and...agreed!

I would have had the final episode in 1980 be the graduation of Richie, Potsie and Ralph from college, ready to embark on adulthood.

If it is true that as someone else said that Penny Marshall didn't want to take Shirley out of the show's title, they could have simply modified the show's title to Laverne Without Shirley for the last season. :D

[tmac81s]

I think series (with the original premise) only had a shelf life of about four years anyhow. By Season 5, the girls were approaching 30 and still talking about "voh-dee-oh-doh" and sewing "L" onto their shirts and sleeping with Boo-boo Kitty...and honestly, it was getting to be a bit sad and a little creepy. They needed to "grow up" and move beyond the basement apartment and their old high school buddies. Think about it: if you're pushing thirty, how many of your old friends from grade school or high school do you still hang out with on a nightly basis? So I do think that the move (and the time warp, which is something I never noticed before but makes sense) was just part of the necessary evolution of the series.
the move was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation: realistically, the
However, the big mistake was moving the ENTIRE CAST west, which defeated the whole purpose of the change. So L&S were still hanging out with their childhood friends and mooching food from Mr. DeFazio and essentially living in a perpetual state of arrested development, only now they were doing so in sunny California in between increasingly unlikely encounters with '60s era "celebrities". Perhaps the producers were leery of making a complete fresh start with Penny and Cindy alone, but if that's the case then they should have stayed in Milwaukee for the remaining three years.


I agree. They should have just moved the girls out by themselves (maybe bring Lenny & Squiggy). Nothing against any of the actors, for they all did fine jobs, but as pointed out above, the series needed to evolve. Frank, Edna and Carmine were all pretty needless characters by this point. (I know I seem to hate on Carmine, but come on--if him and Shirley aren't going to be in an actual relationship or get married, it's pretty ridiculous to stay around, especially when Shirley was always going after other guys. Plus, I didn't find it true to his charcter, giving up his dance studio to deliver singing telegrams? One of the old episodes established that the studio was his dream, so he's gonna give that up for a silly job like that?) Also, Frank had put his life's blood into the Pizza Bowl, he's gonna give that up to run a western-themed place in California? (I always imagined Edna talked him into that.) One of the last season episodes finds him very depressed, what cheers him up is adding pizza to the Cowboy Bill's menu.

Edna is gone by the last season, having run out on Frank for another man and breaking up their marraige in a note. (I also found this a little out of character to what we'd seen in the past. Yes, she had been married a bunch of times before, but I didn't see her, at this point, leaving Frank in that way.)

They needed less singing-and-dancing episodes, and as I said before, more focus on L&S doing physical comedy or getting into sticky situations as only they could do.

[Dr. Thong]

Edna leaving Frank never made sense to me. L&S was an old-fashioned family sitcom and that kind of thing didn't need to happen.

Did Betty Garrett leave the show or something? Even if she did, they could have said in one episode that she had to go cross country to tend to her sick mother and just never referred to her again.

[Guy Incognito]

Agreed, agreed and...agreed!

I would have had the final episode in 1980 be the graduation of Richie, Potsie and Ralph from college, ready to embark on adulthood.

If it is true that as someone else said that Penny Marshall didn't want to take Shirley out of the show's title, they could have simply modified the show's title to Laverne Without Shirley for the last season. :D

At least the Happy Days gang were allowed to "grow up" and evolve throughout the series, which is more than L&S got for YEARS. Even the move from Milwaukee to California didn't change the premise, just the scenery. During the last season, we finally did get SOME belated character development and growth, but only because real-life was writing the plot (namely Cindy, Betty Garrett and eventually Michael McKean all leaving and the plotlines having to be adjusted accordingly). I actually thought that some of the post-Shirley episodes were better than many of the episodes from Cindy's last full season.