Wasn't this show Stereotypical

[°Bubbly Blonde°]

Isn't it though? It isn't like todays shows people call stereotypical, cause Black people dont like this show. Plus it's in the 50's when most Blacks were being oppressed. JMHO.:D

[Sean Snow]

Well, no one ever made a fuss of it until the 60s. Isn't "I Love Lucy" sterotyping Cubans? "Sanford & Son" and "The Jeffersons" blacks? Or how about Chicanos on "Chico & the Man"? I think it's blown way to far. Might as well keep all shows off, because all shows use some sort of sterotypes.

[°Bubbly Blonde°]

Originally posted by Sean Feeney Snow
Well, no one ever made a fuss of it until the 60s. Isn't "I Love Lucy" sterotyping Cubans? "Sanford & Son" and "The Jeffersons" blacks? Or how about Chicanos on "Chico & the Man"? I think it's blown way to far. Might as well keep all shows off, because all shows use some sort of sterotypes.
Yes, but these shows don't show people as total bafoons as Amos n Andy depicted African Americans. I saw this show once on someone's video tape, and these shows depict them as people who can't talk when my b.friend is African American(well actually half African American, half Irish, but she goes by Black) and she said that doesn't represent her at all, and it was offensive. And I saw one person who was white in Black face on this show once! These shows depicted them as TOTAL idiots, unlike the above shows. Also, African Americans find great offense in these shows, unlike Cubans and African Americans in Lucy and Jefferson and Sanford and Son. African Americans love the Jeffersons and even All in the Family, because it isn't making fun of them, in all in the f. it is making fun of Archie, and they find Archie to be quite amusing.

[Freidym Rains]

Amos 'n' Andy was a great sitcom! I loved those people playing those parts. I never had a thought of the fact that they were black. They made me laugh, and I had enough sense to know they were only playing a part. This business of them being "stereotypical" comes from the left in this country, who always have something to whine about! Get a life and have a laugh---it will prolong your life!
~Freidym~ :wave:

[°Bubbly Blonde°]

Originally posted by Freidym Rains
Get a life and have a laugh---it will prolong your life!
~Freidym~ :wave:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol: Yeah, I HAVE a life, thanx;) Just be glad you didn't say all that to my face, other wise I wouldve shoved this keyboard Im tpyin on, or any other object, up your ass! "haha", aint that funny!!? :lol: :rolleyes:

[joan davis fan]

Originally posted by tcbubblegrl

Yes, but these shows don't show people as total bafoons as Amos n Andy depicted African Americans. I saw this show once on someone's video tape, and these shows depict them as people who can't talk when my b.friend is African American(well actually half African American, half Irish, but she goes by Black) and she said that doesn't represent her at all, and it was offensive. And I saw one person who was white in Black face on this show once! These shows depicted them as TOTAL idiots, unlike the above shows. Also, African Americans find great offense in these shows, unlike Cubans and African Americans in Lucy and Jefferson and Sanford and Son. African Americans love the Jeffersons and even All in the Family, because it isn't making fun of them, in all in the f. it is making fun of Archie, and they find Archie to be quite amusing.

Many Blacks were also offended by Good Times. I remember when our local tv station started carrying Good Times there were actual protests. Mainly because of the "JJ" and "sweet daddy" characters.

I have never seen a full Amos & Andy tv show, though I have heard tapes of the radio A&A. Interesting that, during the radio days of Amos, America came to a stand still so they can catch this show of two white guys playing two black guys. Stores closed, theatres played the audio over their sound systems, people just stopped what they were doing so then can catch the show. Unreal !!!

Another show that should be talked about here is Beulah. The show about a black maid, I saw a tape of it years ago and I thought that was racist. Same thing with the old Blondie & dagwood films from the 40s. In both cases the black characters acted "stupid", spoke in such broken english "..yessem buss", I dunno doggie need go-a huntin'", "somebod bawl for Beulah".
And the characters, in a Blondie film one black character was so scared of Daisy that he crashed his bike and then started talking in such bad english, who could understand?

People talk about the 40s and 50s the good ole days but to many out there, they were not.

[TJL]

"As to whether the progeam was in fact racist, there was no agreement on that. The creators certainly didn't think so, and actor Alvin Childress (Amos) was quoted as saying 'I didn't think it harmed the Negro at all...actually it showed the Negro with profession and businesses like attorneys and store owners, which they never had in TV or movies before.' Others pointed out that the situations were no different than those found in many comedy programs with white characters. Nevertheless, the humor certainly derived from the fact that these were shiftless, conniving, not to bright African Americans. The very stereotype that had so long been unfairly applied to an entire race were used throughout (the series). As a result. it is unlikely that Amos and Andy will ever be seen on TV again."

- from "The Directory To Network Prime Time TV Shows"

[Twilight_Trekker]

Boy, Are you misinformed. Black people are the strongest defenders of Amos N Andy & thats a fact. I've spoken with lots of blacks about the show & none had anything bad to say about it.

[TonyT]

Twilight,
You are absolutely correct....though many black Americans find the show distastefull...just as many loved it. Like it or not racism has been a big part of our American history, and many Americans over the decades just took it in stride and made the most of it ...red yellow black and white. I wish I had a nickle for every "****** joke" we laughed at in the black community growing up in the 50's and 60's...as I know my father and grandfather did in the decades before. I know too for a fact that many an Itallian laughed at the "wop jokes" they were told in their neighborhoods...as I suspect many other ethnic communities did also. Bottom line is that our country has evolved a great deal over the decades, and I for one believe that this great diversity our country has only makes most of its citizens stronger.

WHAT A GREAT EXPERIENCE GROWING UP IN AMERICA!

[vedastone]

I have been reading these viewpoints about the stereotyping in Amos and Andy with great interest.

There definitely was stereotyping in the show, but it was not the only focus or the only source of humor. As others have said, stereotyping exists in many shows and movies that are accepted as fit for watching. The quality of the show and its place in history as having an all African American cast should be mitigating circumstances when considering whether it is fit for the public to watch.

I don't believe that A&A treats all African Americans prejudicially. There is no denying that some of the characters were stereotypically depicted, for example, Lightin' and to some extent Andy, but Amos certainly wasn't depicted that way, and it could be argued that even the Kingfish was generally portrayed as being quite clever and intelligent, if a bit dishonest. This is not stereotyping - when Caucasian characters on TV are con men, for example, no one seems to consider that to be prejudicial.

As a contrast, just look at some of the movies from the 30s and 40s. I just watched the movie "Topper Returns", from 1941. Here are some facts about that movie:

1) there was only one African American character, Eddie "Rochester" Anderson
2) he was of course a servant (a chauffeur)
3) he was the continual butt of racist jokes, mainly concerning his fear of ghosts and dead bodies
4) there was no other dimension to his character other than his irrational fear

If you think about the above four points, you will see that not one of them applies to A&A:

1) the whole cast was African American
2) they had all kinds of occupations, including professionals
3) there were no racist jokes from Caucasians, directly or by comparison
4) all the characters on A&A have more to them than their stereotypical dimensions

So, I am trying to say that I admit A&A was to an extent stereotypical, but it was grossly unfair to have it banned from TV while allowing movies and other TV shows that contain elements that are far more racist.

[Zoneboy]

Lets clear the air on one thing right now. Amos & Andy, was never banned from tv. It was removed from syndication by CBS due to pressure from the NAACP. As a matter of fact, it aired briefly in Atlanta during the early 80's on TBS. Also it has been rumoured that Bill Cosby bought the rights from CBS in order to prevent anyone from ever seeing it. This is nothing but an urban legend theres no truth to it at all.

[vedastone]

OK, you have cleared the air. A&A was not banned. But something has kept it off the air (early-eighties-brief-run-on-TBS exception noted). A&A is apparently carrying some stigma that many other TV shows and movies with racist elements do not carry.

[Zoneboy]

That something is the NAACP & CBS. I only mentioned "Clearing the air" because almost everyone assumes that this show was banned and technically, it has been but in countries other than the United States. Unless I misunderstood your last sentence, I don't recall anything racist about A&A. Archie Bunker & Fred Sanford were racists. Fred, made fun of every race there was including his own and theres a few episodes in which the N. word was used.

[vedastone]

Right, Archie Bunker and Fred Sanford's type of racism was totally absent from Amos & Andy. There were no racist characters at all on the show.

But I believe that the answer to the question which is the title of this thread "Wasn't this show stereotypical" has to be "yes, at least to some extent". Just look at Lightnin' for example - the character was a dim-witted slow-reacting shuffler, just like many of the stereotypical representations of African Americans in the movies of the thirties and forties. This type of portrayal can be and is considered racist by many people.

However, it can be argued that stereotypes of genders, races, religions, occupations, ages, and sexual persuasions are commonly found in many movies and TV shows, and it is quite debatable whether such stereotyping is equivalent to out and out racism, sexism, ageism, etc.

Concerning A&A, for me the most interesting point is the phenomenon of how the show has been singled out, given a bad reputation, and indeed, generally kept off TV for allegedly being racist (and/or stereotypical) while other shows (and movies) with seemingly more objectionable features have escaped such penalties.

[W.J. Griffin]

That "Amos 'n' Andy" is stereotypical, there is no question. But is said stereotyping the reason this show is kept off the air for so many years?

Consider that many shows made during the dawn of the tv era, and that are still being shown today contain images that today we would find "politically incorrect" (let me say at the outset that I am no fan of the current "pc" insanity that seems to grip our society. However, I will be using these terms as an illustration of my points.) "I Love Lucy", "I Married Joan", "My Little Margie" and "December Bride" depict women as childish bubbleheads whose realationships with their men are of the most demeaning sort (I can't see the spouses of "Everybody Loves Raymond" or "King of Queens" putting up with the treatment Joan Davis's character had to endure in "I Married Joan"); "Life With Luigi" was a definite misrepresentation of the Italian-American experience; "The Life of Riley" and "The Stu Erwin Show" gave American manhood a black eye in public opinion (the apex of which is, ''The Honeymooners"); and don't get me started on "The Beverly Hillbillies". And yet, these programs are still being previewed on local and cable networks, or readilly availiable on video and DVD in pristine copies and definitive collections.

So why is "The Amos 'n' Andy Show" singled out? Especially when more recent programs featuring African-American characters have been more controversial in reference to race (witness the criticism that surrounded "Martin", "Malcolm and Eddie", and "The PJs")?

Bad timing.

For years, "Amos 'n' Andy" had played on the radio in a more innocent (or unenlightened, considering your point-of-view) age, beloved by people of all stripes. But the television version had the misfortune of premiering at the dawn of the civil rights movement, and its contiued exposure became a sore point with many young Black protesters, and a major embarrassment for the show's owners, CBS. And being a corporate entity, CBS's embarrassment was reflected in the bottom line.

So, within the midst of protests and freedom rides and inner city race riots, the show was quietly withdrawn from syndication, and, except for a few instances, never to be seen over the airwaves again.

So why, nearly a half-century after the fact, is A&A confined to the dustbin of memory while many other programs from the same era, equally offensive, are still being shown? You'd think that now, with more shows featuring a wider spectrum of the Black experience, we'd be able to handle "Amos 'n' Andy" in the new millenium, even with the unresolved racial issues that still plague oursociety, right?

Well, one could claim it's those "unresolved Issues", but other, more controversial shows are still seen on a daily basis ("All In The Family" or "The Jeffersons", anyone?) Then again, it might be that CBS still hasn't figured a way to make a profit from this show without the inevitable firestorm that would surely erupt at its re-emergence. Maybe it's the fear that a revival would open the floodgates to a wave of formerly intolorable behavior thought long-dead.

Whatever the case, an "Amos 'n' Andy" revival would undoubtedly be an unforgettable event.

Thank God for the VCR.

[vedastone]

Amos and Andy the victim of bad timing... That explains a lot. It's unfortunate that it went down that way.

Amos and Andy revival? That would be so cool! But not much chance of that, I'd guess, considering the overwhelming timidity of the networks when it comes to worrying about political correctness. Look what happened to poor Charlie Chan on the Fox Movie Channel - a portrayal of a world renowned Chinese detective with positively superior human qualities, a winner in every way, is deemed unfit to be seen by the public! Thinking this whole thing over gives me a real headache - I'm getting sick of this selective censorship. It's not as if every kind of extreme violence and sex isn't available right on the tube. Why not air shows like Amos & Andy and Charlie Chan and put a disclaimer before it, explaining that some people might be offended by the stereotypes. Then we can act as adults and decide for ourselves if we can expose ourselves or our kids to it. But no-o-o, that's giving us too much autonomy, big brother network must decide for us what is acceptable for us to see....#$%!!@&!

[Zoneboy]

I say hey if you don't like whats on, turn the freakin' channel. It used to be you had 3 networks and a few independents to choose from now you have hundreds. I think it's a crying shame that none of these are willing or able to show Amos & Andy because of the fear of offending someone. If I were black, shows like Home Boys In Outer Space & Family Matters would insult me. If you want to talk stereotypical, I watch The Lone Ranger everyday and there hasn't been an episode yet in which Tonto wasn't called injun or redskin & to some, this is just as bad as Fred Sanford using the N word. The odd thing is that The Lone Ranger is shown on a religious channel called World Harvest Television. They depend on donations to keep the channel on the air yet they show this and other shows such as Lassie, The Rifleman, Bonanza etc...uncut and with no voice overs, split screens etc...Like WJ Griffin said, Thank God For The VCR.

[bencasey]

I'd just be curious as to what CBS would say if anyone called to buy the show for airing. They would probably not sell it to them. So no one could air it if they wanted to as it is not available. Another reason is that the show is now public domain. CBS even lost a court case when they tried to sue some of the people distributing the show. Unfortunately they are the only ones holding a set of negatives and clean prints on the show. The people selling it all seem to be missing 7 episodes so that you couldn't get a complete run from anyone.

As for the dialect used, I have to laugh. Why is the broken English used offensive but Ebonics and black English used by many blacks today not? I've listened to people talk like that Snoopy guy, and I can't understand a word he's saying. The mangled English on Amos and Andy had better use of tenses than any rapper uses. If Kingfish and Andy are buffoons that are offensive to black people then what about Ralph Kramden and Ed Norton? Are they offensive to whites?

Bottom line is this withdrawal was a big victory for the NAACP. For them to relent and let the show out of purgatory is not something they would ever allow. It was seen as too significant an act for them and they would not go for a reversal.

Curious about that TBS thing. Can anyone give me a specific time frame? I'd like to go back and check my TV guides to see if this is true. Also would be curious as to who they got the prints from, whether it was CBS or someone else.

[W.J. Griffin]

Originally posted by bencasey
I'd just be curious as to what CBS would say if anyone called to buy the show for airing. They would probably not sell it to them. So no one could air it if they wanted to as it is not available. Another reason is that the show is now public domain. CBS even lost a court case when they tried to sue some of the people distributing the show. Unfortunately they are the only ones holding a set of negatives and clean prints on the show. The people selling it all seem to be missing 7 episodes so that you couldn't get a complete run from anyone.

As for the dialect used, I have to laugh. Why is the broken English used offensive but Ebonics and black English used by many blacks today not? I've listened to people talk like that Snoopy guy, and I can't understand a word he's saying. The mangled English on Amos and Andy had better use of tenses than any rapper uses. If Kingfish and Andy are buffoons that are offensive to black people then what about Ralph Kramden and Ed Norton? Are they offensive to whites?

Bottom line is this withdrawal was a big victory for the NAACP. For them to relent and let the show out of purgatory is not something they would ever allow. It was seen as too significant an act for them and they would not go for a reversal.

Curious about that TBS thing. Can anyone give me a specific time frame? I'd like to go back and check my TV guides to see if this is true. Also would be curious as to who they got the prints from, whether it was CBS or someone else.


A couple of points I'd like to make regarding the above:

1. Language. One thing you have to realize is that the dialogue used in "Amos 'n' Andy" was directly inspired by the jargon used for years by White blackface minstrels, usually to demean Black character (though, in this case, I doubt that THAT was Mr. Gosden's or Mr. Correll's original intent when they created these characters), so you can understand why the middle-class Black Americans who were then making their biggest strides toward equality would object to such characterizations. The "Ebonics" thing, on the other hand was a way that current African-American youth, many of whom feel disconnected and disenfranchished to the mainstream, could feel they were creating a "culture" of their own (their original African roots all but subverted by years of racial mistreatment at the hands of White America), and rebel against the ruling class.

2. Ralph Kramden and Ed Norton, along with Chester Riley, Stu Erwin, and others of the "bumbling fathers" school, had the good fortune to be counterbalanced with Joe Friday, Matt Dillon, and even John Cameron Swayze, whereas Amos, Andy, Kingfish, Lightnin' and Algonquin J. Calhoun were the ONLY examples of Black manhood depicted on the air. Belive me, if Kramden, Riley, etc. WERE the only examples of White manhood, rest assured that there would have been an outcry of protest over them, too. (Indeed, at the time there WAS an outcry, so a radio sitcom featuring Robert Young as a typical bumbling dad was retooled for television as the patrician "Father Knows Best".)

3. TBS showed "Amos 'n' Andy" sometime in 1982, if I'm not mistaken. When, exactly, in '82, I have no idea.

[TV Knowledge Fan]

Well, if you consider the characters of :

*a lovable loud-mouthed, lazy, scheming and conniving braggart;
*a "shrew" of a wife;
*a "not-too bright" buddy and co-schemer;
*an equally conniving lawyer who loses more cases than wins 'em because of his consistent stupidity in the courtroom;
*a "battleaxe" mother-in-law;
*and a "straight man" who's too smart to be mixed up in his friend's affairs...

....those characters are among the backbone of the American situation comedy format. In the case of "THE AMOS 'N' ANDY SHOW", they happen to be black.

:tv:

[tv star collector]

Re "stereotypes," do we judge all white people by ...

The Three Stooges!?

[TV Knowledge Fan]

....most of us are "Larrys" in a world overrun by "Moes", "Curlys", "Shemps", and "Joes".


Think about it.



:stooges:

[NEWYORKEX]

What is the great difference between Amos n Andy and Sanford N Son? None I think. People are trying to sell us the idea that stereotype was bad, I think it was pure entertaining as I do Sanford and Son. Arent all ethnicities stereotyped? of course they are because we are all different. I never saw anything in either show that belittled anyone. You can certainly make things fit if you want or rather try to make them fit. One thing about , those days Amos n Amdy aired we sure had far less crime, far less problems....the more folks said the shows were wrong over years the greater crime became, the greater rate of unwed moms, the greater rate of bad , period. Enjoy life and people for what they are. Not what radicals want us to see them as.

[TVFactFan]

What is the great difference between Amos n Andy and Sanford N Son? None I think. People are trying to sell us the idea that stereotype was bad, I think it was pure entertaining as I do Sanford and Son. Arent all ethnicities stereotyped? of course they are because we are all different. I never saw anything in either show that belittled anyone. You can certainly make things fit if you want or rather try to make them fit. One thing about , those days Amos n Amdy aired we sure had far less crime, far less problems....the more folks said the shows were wrong over years the greater crime became, the greater rate of unwed moms, the greater rate of bad , period. Enjoy life and people for what they are. Not what radicals want us to see them as.


I read on the web that some black leaders felt that the Jeffersons were more stereotypical than Amos and Andy-lol They said that the Jeffersons theme song was an insult to black people

[warsaw dreams]

It's a comedy tv show! It makes fun of people and life just like any other comedy show! If some people can't tell the difference between reality and tv, then that's their problem!! :rolleyes:

[MickeyMac]

Its been so slong I dont remember anymore.

[warsaw dreams]

You can rent Amos N' Andy at Netflix. Check it out!!

[Sitcom Collector]

In an interview once, Redd Foxx said he patterned Fred Sanford after Kingfish from A&A. Despite being based on a Britcom, the similarities between Amos and Andy and Sanford and Son are striking.
My sister gave me a bootlet copy she got off e-bay. Amos and Andy is pretty dated today, some episodes are funny. Others are a little over the top.
The Christmas episode is well worth the watch.

[MrCleveland]

I can see no difference from A&A and anything by Tyler Perry!

Stereotypes NEVER fade away! Dave Chappelle even said this "Don't expect the word ****** to disappear and a big rainbow is going to shine on us"!

I'm German, Italian, and Irish and yes here's how they're portrayed....

German=Polka Dancer (old), Hitler-lover/NAZI (new)
Italian=Eats Spaghetti and has a moustache (old), Mobster (new)
Irish=Lepurachan (old), Drinker (new)

And yes, there's other ones....

Polish=Stupid (I met many Polish-Americans, and they're hard workers).
African=Cannibals, backwards (old); Rappers, Eat KFC (new) (I have many African-American friends who are well-to-do).
Latinos=Lazy (I met a few Latinos who WILL work and are very successful).
Arabian=Terrorist (No...I have a Christian-Arabian friend who shudders about Terrorists).
East Asian=Opium-sellers (old), Smart (new) (Yes, many East Asians go to school...but some can't afford to go to school).
Jewish=Money-Hungry (Jewish people have a legacy in Hollywood for 100 years and some came from the Ghetto...really, that's where the word Ghetto came from)!

Hollywood even defended African-Americans before The Civil Rights. Despite Al Jolson and Eddie Cantor stereotyping the African-Americans in films, they defended them (Cantor's best friend was Bert Williams, an African-American from the Bahamas and Sammy Davis Jr.). Clark Gable almost left the stage of "Gone with the Wind" when he saw the dressing rooms were segregated!

And though Whoopi Goldberg has some "open mouth, insert foot" moments, she DID say something coherent..."Though these stereotypes were hurtful...we just can't brush them away"! Even today, we do that....Consuela (Latino), The Broflovskis (Jewish), The Corleones (Italian), Tyrone Biggums (African-American), Apu (East Indian), and Long Duk Dong (Asian). How different is that with the older sterotypes of Mammy, Speedy Gonzales, Lil' Abner, Katzenjamer, or Fu Manchu? Not Much...and it's that 10% that gets on their high horse about it!

[dahur1]

I remember reading Red Foxx saying Amos and Andy was a great show, and should never been removed. In fact, he said he got a lot of his material from the show.
I had many black friends at work, and on occasion we would talk about it. They all said they thought the show was hilarious. And they would have kept it on. It was a mistake to stop it.

I have around 75 episodes, and I can sit down and watch them anytime.

[the_master68]

I downloaded a bunch of these episodes, a few years ago, but have not watched them (I know, stupid)... I remember reading similar accounts of the show and was curious. Now I guess I'll go dig them up and make some DVDs to watch...