PDA

View Full Version : Did Liz Get Along With Barbara Eden?.


snelson
02-16-2010, 08:15 PM
how did liz get along with barbara eden?.

the truth
02-16-2010, 11:00 PM
LOL!

Retro4Life
02-16-2010, 11:10 PM
LOL!

I'm not sure why this elicits laughter (let alone "out loud laughter" hehe), but the first thing that I thought of was they may well have not ever met. Just because they were on two very popular network TV shows at (roughly) the same time, with a similar theme, doesn't mean they knew each other.

My guess is that HAD they met they would have been fine with each other as both of them seem graceful, intelligent and secure. :)

the truth
02-16-2010, 11:34 PM
I'm not sure why this elicits laughter (let alone "out loud laughter" hehe),
Sorry, you must not have read the other thread. Nevermind. :)

catlover79
02-17-2010, 03:51 AM
I personally have no idea.

Larry Tate
02-17-2010, 11:47 AM
how did liz get along with barbara eden?.

Sally Field on Rosie once recounted an incident between Liz & Babs in the area where they all got their hair done side by side with other actresses.

Babs was a morning person who loved to sing & had a fine voice, Liz was Not a Morning person & wanted peace & quiet.

After several times with Liz asking her to not sing so early at it must have been around 6 in the morning, Babs did so again.

Liz finally had enough & yelled at her to Shut Up!! which Babs did.

She had just had enough is all, while Liz did have a grudge against Sydney Sheldon the head guy over at I Dream of Jeannie for plagiarizing her show, she never held Babs or the rest of the IDOJ cast responsible for the creative theft.

Larry Tate :)

snelson
02-17-2010, 12:50 PM
now that's funny lol. liz was right to do that. i remember when i was in college i was talking to myself and my classmate had enough and told me to shut up,

ansara1
02-17-2010, 02:06 PM
Barbara and Liz WERE friends. Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie were both Screen Gems productions. Bewitched aired on ABC and I Dream of Jeannie aired on NBC but since they were both produced by Screen Gems Productions both were filmed on the same lot where you see exterior shots of the houses. Funny enough Jeannie and Samanth's houses are right down the street from each other on the lot (now the Warner Bros. Ranch) - this can easily be seen on the Jeannie opening sequence (episodes 2 - 8 from the first season) in which scenes from the pilot are shown instead of the animated opening with the bottle. If you notice near the end of the opening (RIGHT BEFORE the last scene when it shows Jeannis' house) there is a shot of the street Jeannie lives on and at the end of the street Samantha and Darrin's house is clearly visable). Both shows used the exteriors and sets from the interiors from time to time (they were filmed across the hall from one another). Anyway, a close friend of mine who introduced me to Barbara Eden backstage many years ago in NY asked Barbara about Liz while speaking with her on the phone (again I have known my friend for YEARS and have actually been in with him during one conversation he had with hervia the telephone ). She told him that while on the Screen Gems lot in-between filming they would sit and talk about their children. She even said that in 1965 when she was pregnant with her son, Michael Matthew, Elizabeth gave her some of her maternity clothes from her first pregnancy (from the previous year). In addition to that, when asked about I Dream of Jeannie, Elizabeth spoke about how if there was any "irritation" about I Dream of Jeannie it was ALL directed at the show's creator, Sidney Sheldon. Upon she and William Asher meeting Sidney Sheldon and speaking about I Dream of Jeannie in 1964 she stated - and I quote - (I have listened to the audio tape) "I was annoyed with Sidney - that's NOT TO SAY I was annoyed with Barbara, or Larry Hagman, or any of those people, but it was that initial meeting with Sidney." Even the fact that she mentions Barbara only by her first name (and if you heard it - the WAY she said it) but then goes on to say "Larry Hagman" as if they were more aquaintences and didn't know each other that well.

Now - NOT to open a can of worms - but from all I have read and researched, etc. I Dream of Jeannie was NOT - I repeat - NOT a rip-off of Bewitched. I DO think that it is to the success of the first season of Bewitched that we owe a lot of credit that I Dream of Jeannie aired the following season. From all I have read, researched, etc. Sidney Sheldon saw the feature film, The Brass Bottle (also out in 1964 - one year before I Dream of Jeannie premiered) in which Berle Ives starred as a genie Tony Randell found and Barbara Eden starred as Tony Randell's fience. After seeing this Sidney wanted to do a series about a beautiful FEMALE genie. THAT is where he got his inspiration. This makes sense as far a time line is concerned because the pilot of I Dream of Jeannie was FILMED in Dec. of 1964. Bewitched premiered on ABC on Sept. 18, 1964. If it had been a copy of Bewitched I doubt Sheldon would have had much time to sit and view episodes of Bewitched that had aired through Oct. (only two months worth of episodes), write the pilot for I Dream of Jeannie, hire a director, a crew, cast the series, deal with technical aspects, props (the bottle), costumes, film it, etc., and still be working ON THE OTHER COAST in NY filming The Patty Duke Show - that he wrote virtually EVERY SCRIPT! What IS believable is that Screen Gems wanted to leverage their ABC hit on another network, ULTIMATELY asked Sidney Sheldon to write something for them for NBC (after asking Sol Saks, who wrote the Bewitched pilot, to write another story about a witch - and he declined). Sidney, who (as stated above) had thinking about doing something about a FEMALE genie, took them up on it and came up with I Dream of Jeannie. As Sol Saks stated in an interview, there had been films done about similar synopsis such as Bewitched (the movies I Married a Witch and Bell, Book, and Candle)...BUT Columbia Pictures / Screen Gems OWNED those so there were no legal issues. I DO think Elizabeth believed I Dream of Jeannie was a rip-off of Bewitched and was why she had a problem with Sidney Sheldon though it was a feature film (The Brass Bottle) that inspired Sheldon to write it (just as there had been similar feature film premises done like Bewitched - Bell, Book and Candle and I Married a Witch). I also know that Bill Asher and Sidney were friends and worked together on The Patty Duke Show before Bewitched or Jeannie. Sheldon originally wanted the show to feature twin SISTERS (LIKE Jeannie and her sister, Jeannie II) but suggested identical COUSINS (Samantha and Serena). The Patty Duke Show ultimately went with identical cousins. In any case, Sheldon was writing virtually ALL of those scripts before he started working on I Dream of Jeannie. Asher said in an E! True Hollywood Story interview that Sidney "stold" scripts from them (as he is speaking there is a split screen showing Jeannie and her sister and Samantha and Serena). Serena did appear on Bewitched first when Tabitha was born (during the 2nd season of Bewitched and Jeannie's 1st season) BUT she did not show back up on Bewitched until SEASON 4 - THE SAME SEASON JEANNIE'S EVIL SISTER FIRST APPEARED - SEASON 3). Actually the episode in which Jeannie's sister made her debute aired BEFORE Serena reappeared in season 4 of Bewitched. I say all of this to say I doubt Sidney Sheldon or any of the writers for I Dream of Jeannie went back and watched that one episode of Bewitched with Serena and decided to copy it (againTWO YEARS LATER). In addition I have personally counted "copied" episodes and BOTH - I REPEAT - BOTH shows "copied" each other. There are episodes (I counted that EACH did it 15 times) in which one show had an episode from a PREVIOUS SEASON and the other uses almost the exact same script (or the same one sort of turned inside out - or in 'reverse'). ONE example for Jeannie is when she blinks up a beautiful home on a vacant lot across the street for Roger to meet her in. Of course Dr. Bellows sees the house and wants Tony to explain. The following season on Bewitched Endora zaps up a beautiful home (THE EXACT SAME EXTERIOR HOME USED ON I DREAM OF JEANNIE!) on a vacant lot across the street from Samantha and Darrin. Of course Mrs. Kravitz sees it and calls the police. Then there is the episode where aunt clara zaps up a newspaper she THINKS is tomorrow's paper (it really is from 10 years in the past) in which it states Larry Tate breaks his leg. The following season Jeannie gets the dates mixed up (thanks to Roger's messed up watch) and blinks up tomorrow's paper...the headlines read that an astronaut (NASA does not disclose whch one) breaks his leg in an accident. I don't believe EITHER of these shows intentionally copied or "stold scripts" from each other but probably had some of the same writers working on the lot that UNINTENTIONALLY replicated ideas already used. I say ALL OF THAT to say that I Dream of Jeannie was NOT a rip-off of Bewitched and NEITHER intentionally copied the other. Seeing as how Sidney Sheldon and William Asher were friends and previously worked together on The Patty Duke Show (ABOUT IDENTICAL COUSINS) I am disappointed that Asher went on The E! True Hollywood Story accusing Sidney Sheldon of "stealing scripts" from Bewitched (referring to Bewitched - again the identical cousins had been done before and Sidney had wanted to have identical twin SISTERS) when in reality both shows had episodes that were unintentionally "copied." I am glad Sidney took the high road and said nothing negative about Bewitched or anyone associated with it but simply said they didn't see (and / or take) any scripts of their's and to his knowledge the same was true of them. Now - I believe Elizabeth was taking what William Asher said as the truth (in the interview she also comments about Jeannie's sister as a copy of Serena) and THAT is part of why she was annoyed with Sidney Sheldon. The other reason being she didn't know about The Brass Bottle being Sheldon's inspiration. So, I can understand why she felt the way she did having been given the information she was about Sidney from his - friend - and her husband. It has always puzzled me that if Asher felt this way about Jeannie and everyone involved he would participate in the movie I Dream of Jeannie: 15 Years Later. I know it was for money and I know he and Elizabeth were long divorced at that point but to have felt so strongly about Sheldon and the series it just seems odd he participated in it. I'm sure he's a very nice man and I do not mean to insult him but I have to admit this does disappoint me about him though I do NOT fault Elizabeth in the least. Forgive this LONG synopsis but I have spoken and written about this before and one question or comment leads to another so I simply wanted to try and cover (if not all) mostly everything on this topic. Therefore, to the best of my knowledge Barbara Eden and Elizabeth Montgomery WERE friends. Having LOVED THEM BOTH AND BOTH SHOWS I HOPE YOU ARE AS HAPPY TO LEARN THIS (if you didn't already know) AS I WAS WHEN I FOUND THIS NEWS OUT!!!!

ansara1
02-17-2010, 02:15 PM
Hi Larry T.,

I think we are friends and I mean this in the friendliest way possible - but I disagree with the total recollection given above. First of all it was in poor taste for Sally Field to tell that story 30 years later and a year AFTER Liz was dead - but I digress. My friend asked Barbara Eden about this and she laughed. She said she had to practice her songs for her night club act in Vegas whenever she had a spare minute. When she would do that she was in her "own little world" and said she very well could have done that without meaning to - but bothering them. She also told my friend that she and Liz were friends and that if anything were really bothering her that Liz would have told her. Therefore, I think you are right when you say it wasn't that big of a deal. But THAT is the reason she was singing - not simply to sing, sing, sing. Also, I disagree that Sidney "plagiarized" her show though as I state in my other (very lengthy) post I DO believe that because of what Bill Asher told her that SHE BELIEVED Sidney Sheldon did.

MickeyMac
02-17-2010, 05:16 PM
All I know is that Liz basicly thought Jeanie was a rip off from her show. I remember seeing a documentary about Liz, and after Jeannie had Barbara Eden playing her sister, Liz got even more irritated because she thought it was a rip off of Serena.


In the 80's when Bill Asher worked on the Jeannie reunion movie, Liz I understand was not happy about it, even though they had been divorced.

ansara1
02-17-2010, 08:46 PM
All I know is that Liz basicly thought Jeanie was a rip off from her show. I remember seeing a documentary about Liz, and after Jeannie had Barbara Eden playing her sister, Liz got even more irritated because she thought it was a rip off of Serena.


In the 80's when Bill Asher worked on the Jeannie reunion movie, Liz I understand was not happy about it, even though they had been divorced.


Yes, it is evident she really did THINK it was a rip off of her show.

I had always heard she wasn't happy with him either but in the audio interview when asked about it she says, "Oh, I didn't care about that.
They couldn't have gotten anyone better. Let's face it."

As for Jeannie II and Serena, she clearly is irritated when speaking about it on
the audio interview as well BUT she DOES RESTATE that her irritation lies with Sidney Sheldon - NOT Barbara Eden - or any of the cast members. She then goes on to say that (again - that as stated in my previous post) it was the initial meeting she and Bill had with Sidney on the creation of I Dream of Jeannie that she was really annoyed by.

Larry Tate
02-17-2010, 09:21 PM
Hi Larry T.,

I think we are friends and I mean this in the friendliest way possible - but I disagree with the total recollection given above. First of all it was in poor taste for Sally Field to tell that story 30 years later and a year AFTER Liz was dead - but I digress. My friend asked Barbara Eden about this and she laughed. She said she had to practice her songs for her night club act in Vegas whenever she had a spare minute. When she would do that she was in her "own little world" and said she very well could have done that without meaning to - but bothering them. She also told my friend that she and Liz were friends and that if anything were really bothering her that Liz would have told her. Therefore, I think you are right when you say it wasn't that big of a deal. But THAT is the reason she was singing - not simply to sing, sing, sing. Also, I disagree that Sidney "plagiarized" her show though as I state in my other (very lengthy) post I DO believe that because of what Bill Asher told her that SHE BELIEVED Sidney Sheldon did.

Ok first off these things are never personal, i always focus in on the facts & their relative merits of the subject at hand unless attacked.

Everyone has a right to their opinion & to express it here in their posts, at the same time a person has a right in their post to disagree & outline why they view something differently based on the merit of the facts as they see them.

Bottom line in my view IDOJ was a complete plageristic copy of Bewitched and a ripoff of it.

It was a good show, i enjoyed it then & now, the cast was excellent & Babs did a first rate job of it.

But it copied almost everything about Bewitched from the animated opening & similar theme song to the Jeannie II character that was a cheap ripoff of Serena.

They often took scenes & even whole episodes almost verbatam from Bewitched episodes, they were able to get away with copying whole scripts only because Screen Gems owned the rights to both shows & their scripts as well & could do with them whatever they wanted too do.

Liz was not furious about it because of what Bill Asher told her and believed to be the case, but rather by what she saw on TV was the case in the IDOJ blatant copies of her show, she was nervous about this happening when she heard Sydney Sheldon first talk about IDOJ with them & her fears bore fruit in the show that IDOJ became.

She never blamed the cast but felt that Sydney had stolen, copied, plagerized & ripped off her show, i agree with her views 100%.

When you take specific aspects of a character, scripts word for word almost & themes of a show & use them on your own then that is a show that was stolen, copied, plagerized & ripped off of Liz's show.

Now you can not disagree with what Sally Field said as she was there & you were not.

I never said she was just singing & it really matters not as to her motivation to sing at 6 AM, rather the point is that she did so, Liz got ticked off & after several times nicely asking her to stop finally told her off & told her to shut up.

That is what i said, that is what happened, you can't disagree with reality as it exists.

I am not saying that Liz's feelings towards Babs changed because of this issue but rather that this happened which it did.

Now Babs has a way these days of trying to spin things in a positive way, like her show was more magical, Jeannie more Powerful, they did not ripoff Bewitched, she & Liz were friends, personally i don't buy any of it & feel it is more along the lines of a glorified press release on her part when she says such things.

I don't think there was ever any ill will between them but i doubt if they had anything more then a nodding interaction with each other.

I think we can agree to disagree on these matters as the opposite view on this does not hold much water with me.

Larry Tate :)

Larry Tate
02-17-2010, 09:34 PM
Yes, it is evident she really did THINK it was a rip off of her show.

I had always heard she wasn't happy with him either but in the audio interview when asked about it she says, "Oh, I didn't care about that.
They couldn't have gotten anyone better. Let's face it."

As for Jeannie II and Serena, she clearly is irritated when speaking about it on
the audio interview as well BUT she DOES RESTATE that her irritation lies with Sidney Sheldon - NOT Barbara Eden - or any of the cast members. She then goes on to say that (again - that as stated in my previous post) it was the initial meeting she and Bill had with Sidney on the creation of I Dream of Jeannie that she was really annoyed by.

What audio Interview & are you referring to one that Liz gave?........what show was this from?.

The point is not that she was blaming SS & not Babs, the point is that she felt it was a ripoff & plagerized version of her show which it was in my view.

That she did not blame Babs does not have anything to do with if IDOJ was a ripoff of Bewitched or if Liz thought it was, she did, it was & i agree with Liz.

Liz was furious at the time & still was 20 years later enough so that when Bill directed the Jeannie TV Movie she called him & give him heck, really chewed him out over it & asked him not to do it, that speaks for itself.

In fact when Bewitched was on the air she made sure that none of the writers working on Bewitched would be allowed to write for IDOJ, that is why James Henerson was fired, because he was on the sly writing for both shows.

She really got angry with SS as his show went on the air when she saw what they were doing, that is what infuriated her, more so then her initial misgivings when SS told her about his plans which already were concerning her.

Larry Tate :)

Larry Tate
02-17-2010, 10:03 PM
It matters not where SS got his inspiration for IDOJ, what matters is that once he did
do the show he focused on Bewitched only & copied it to an extreme, that is what this thread is about & nothing else.

IDOJ did not air for a year after Bewitched, most of the copying of Bewitched by IDOJ did not
really start till the following season after IDOJ's first season, i guess SS was having a hard time coming up with new material so he looked at Bewitched & just did a Ditto on it basically, as well he gained access to Bewitched unfilmed scripts & used them as a basis for his IDOJ scripts, that is how in a few instances an IDOJ episode was filmed & seen before a Bewitched one with the same basic script was, after SS had copied their script Bewitched still went ahead with their version of it usually a year or more later.

So the suggestion that Bewitched ever copied IDOJ is absurd & Rubbish, the copying was 100% one sided, that of IDOJ doing the copying & the point is re Serena how Jeanie II was used & presented as a character in that it was a virtual copy of Serena, that is the point, no matter how long ago SS had used identical cousins when he used them on IDOJ they were Serenafied so that the copying was very obvious for all to see.

That Bewitched copied IDOJ 15 times is laughable & can not be taken seriously.
SS did what he did & did it on purpose with full knowledge of his actions, there was nothing unintentional about it, he knew what he was doing, he needed scripts, could not write them & simply stole them on purpose from Bewitched, that is the reality of it.

In 1965 I can see Liz & Babs getting along, but as IDOJ started to rip off & copy Bewitched
to an extreme in it's second season I seriously doubt much interaction took place between the two ladies due to Liz's feelings about what was going on script wise, and you can't blame her as she was one right in seeing what she was seeing & as well in feeling as she did about it.

You see the whole thing is not that both shows were fantasy's, had Supernatural leads or had Cousins, but rather that SS made these generalities Bewitched specific when he wrote his IDOJ scripts, so much so that all it seemed he did was change the names around with the scripts, scenes, characters, how they acted, interacted etc. virtually identical to how it was so on Bewitched, that is the crux of the issue on this matter & what made it what it was, a Ripoff.

Larry Tate :)

catlover79
02-17-2010, 11:29 PM
For whatever it's worth, Liz also wasn't happy when Bill directed the Green Acres reunion movie. She thought that the classic shows should stay in the past. I think most of the GA cast would concur with Liz, as I read in The Hooterville Handbook: A Viewer's Guide To Green Acres. Most of the cast (especially Eddie Albert) was unhappy with the script and mainly filmed it for the dough.

ansara1
02-18-2010, 02:59 PM
Hi LT,

Again, I love both shows and their stars. I, too, am writing on FACT but I should write this and then close because - AND I mean this SINCERELY - NOT sarcastically - or to be disrespectful - I can see from comments in your posts that your love for the show and its stars are clouding your ability to be TOTALLY objective, hearing or even considering anything I'm saying.

For instance, there were MANY, MANY, MANY shows with animated openings BEFORE AND AFTER Bewitched. My Favorite Martian had one and it began ONE YEAR BEFORE Bewitched but I doubt you think Bewitched copied it. I Love Lucy had one, The Lucy Show, Batman, Lost In Space, etc. Does that mean these shows all copied another? No. Also, have you listened to EITHER of I Dream of Jeannie's theme songs (1st year or 2nd - 5th)? You speak in one of your posts about Jeannie copying Bewitched right down to its theme song but neither one of its themes sound REMOTELY like Bewitched's theme song.

And I LOVE Bewitched - and Elizabeth Montgomery - I ALWAYS HAVE - BUT the premise of Bewitched isn't an original concept either. I watched Bell, Book, and Candle several months ago and was very surprised to see HOW SIMILAR many aspects of it were to Bewitched. I doubt you think Sol Saks or Bill Asher copied from it. To be fair, there is A SCENE from The Brass Bottle that is similar to A SCENE from Jeannie's pilot episode too. As I stated in an erlier post, Sidney Sheldon STATED HE GOT HIS INSPIRATION FROM THAT MOVIE BUT HE WANTED A BEAUTIFUL GIRL AS THE GENIE INSTEAD OF A MAN.

And when I give a VALID example (I have 15 for both shows) of copying you give an excuse that Sidney somehow got his hands on their scripts and the copying was ALL him. That is NOT factual or very believable - especially if the Bewitched crew was so worried about Jeannie ripping them off. Neither YOU NOR I were there and what you stated in your last post about this is a theory- NOT fact. I doubt they just left scripts lying around and Sidney went over there (at all) or certainly not enough times (or had someone constantly going for him) and getting and / or looking at scripts. SOMEONE from Bewitched eventually would have caught on and exposed them – and / or started keeping the scripts in a safer place. That’s just not a logical theory. Face it - they BOTH did it - AND MANY TIMES WHEN EITHER DID IT, THE TIMING WAS A WHOLE SEASON LATER - AGAIN - A WHOLE SEASON LATER. Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, or any other show for that matter would NOT have had a script (OR SCRIPTS) lying around for a YEAR and THEN used one or more of them (…and lying around where someone from Jeannie could easily get to it - that just isn't plausible). ...and furthermore I AM personally offended at you're calling what I PERSONALLY wrote "laughable" just as another poster called what you wrote laughable and you responded on another thread. The 15 references for BOTH ARE TRUE and I will send them to you if you like. As I have said, I like BOTH shows. To say SS could not write both shows is simply not factual. He wrote The Patty Duke Show (…the ORIGINAL show to have IDENTICAL COUSINS OF WHICH SIDNEY SHELDON WROTE VIRTUALLY EVERY SCRIPT - AND BY THE WAY WHICH WILLIAM ASHER WORKED WITH HIM....) as well as I Dream of Jeannie (he was working bi-coastal doing it) and as you know he went on to write numerous best selling novels - so he obviously COULD write on his own merit.

In the case of "ripping scripts off VERBATIM," that is simply NOT true. Have you actually watched more than one or two episodes of I Dream of Jeannie???? If you have I don't see how you could truthfully make such a statement as to say that Jeannie stole and copied "to an extreme." MANY of the scripts are simply NOT ANYTHING alike. The ONLY time that EVER came truly close ("to an extreme") is the episode involving the newspaper with the wrong date - and the "verbatim" part would have been ONLY during the FIRST SCENE. Much like Bewitched "ripped off" the scene "verbatim" from the episode of Jeannie I mentioned in another post (that was ONE SEASON EARLIER - and NOT "absurd and rubbish" - though what IS absurd is to say is that with Montgomery and Asher feeling the way they did about Sheldon and I Dream of Jeannie, they would make it SO easy for SS...or anyone to "gain access to Bewitched unfilmed scripts & use them as a basis for his IDOJ scripts" MUCH LESS that there would be "unfilmed scripts lying around ONE YEAR BEFORE THEY WERE USED - THEY WOULDN'T HAVE THAT MUCH TIME TO WRITE SO MANY SCRIPTS THEY COULD HAVE JUST LYING AROUND FOR A YEAR - THAT'S REALLY STRETCHING IT. Some examples where this occurred on Bewitched involved the I Dream of Jeannie episode with the house on the vacant lot OR I Love Lucy's classic scene with Lucy and Ethel working at the factory assembly line wrapping chocolates - Bewitched did it when Serena and Uncle Arthur lost their powers and are working with the chocolate and frozen bananas (episode title- "Samantha's Power Failure" from season 5). Yes, I know Asher worked on I Love Lucy...but it was still a rip off from another show - not original. And one thing Jeannie may have come close to one or two times but NEVER did was to rehash scripts which Bewitched did MANY times (especially when Dick Sargent started). In fairness Bewitched was on longer and had to come up with more new material - but it still rehashed many, many former scripts.

As for the characters, they were NOTHING ALIKE. Jeannie and Samantha were CERTAINLY not alike other than their hair color and magical powers. Darrin always wanted Samantha NOT to use her powers and she always tried NOT to use them. On Jeannie - Maj. Nelson rarely if ever would tell Jeannie NOT to use her powers and Jeannie (as Barbara Eden has stated) GLORIED IN HER MAGIC. There was NO Roger on Bewitched nor any Larry Tate type character on Jeannie. The only "similar" type character was Dr. Bellows and Mrs. Kravitz, though Bellows had a more significant part to the plot most times. Also, where Mrs. Kravitz came snooping around to FIND something Dr. Bellows would accidentally see things and not know how they happened - he just knew everything surrounded Maj. Nelson. Mrs. Kravitz always suspected Samantha was a witch. Again, Dr. Bellows was a more central character than Mrs. Kravitz. In essence, other than the last similarity mentioned the main characters were NOTHING ALIKE. ...and if you TRULY believe your statement, "SS made these generalities Bewitched specific when he wrote his IDOJ scripts, so much so that all it seemed he did was change the names around with the scripts, scenes, characters, how they acted, interacted etc. virtually identical to how it was so on Bewitched, that is the crux of the issue on this matter & what made it what it was, a Rip off," then you need to watch Bell, Book and Candle because that makes Bewitched a Rip off as well. The truth is they are two different shows in many ways and had Barbara had dark hair at least some of this would not have been nearly as big of an issue.

As for Sally Field, I still think it was in very POOR taste for her to tell such a story. I mean, WHO was she trying to make look bad? And that was 30 years ago! Plus - Elizabeth had just died one year earlier when she told this tacky story. I wonder if it happened EXACTLY that way. No - I was not there and she was but SO WAS BARBARA EDEN and I told you what she said. Also, what I told you about what Liz said on the audio interview regarding Barbara is TRUE. I'll send you my phone # on a private message, you can call me, and I'll play it for you. This was an audio interview done for the book about Bewitched.

This brings me to another point. To be fair, you have to admit you are playing by two sets of rules when you say that "Barbara has a way of spinning things these days in a positive way." SO.... WE CAN NOT TAKE HER WORD FOR IT BUT WE CAN CLAIM ANYTHING LIZ, BILL ASHER, OR EVEN SALLY FIELD SAYS (a 30 YEAR TRIVIAL ANTICDOTE) AS THE GOSPEL. In essence, no matter what I say that has factual merit you won't believe. I admire your wanting to prove things on FACT but what you stated about "the copying being 100% one sided" and how Sidney "gained access to unused scripts" (a whole year before they were used on Bewitched) says it all - you aren't going to listen to something that IS FACTUAL if it doesn't back up what you think or want to think happened. That unused script theory is IN NO WAY FACTUAL and unless you were there could never prove it. And also, you're willing to believe the word of anybody from the Bewitched camp or Sally Field (and what would motivate her to tell such a story - I find it insulting to both Eden and Montgomery - she was either trying to make Eden look like an annoying idiot or Montgomery look like a bitch - or both - and I am offended for BOTH of them - ESPECIALLY SINCE LIZ HAD PASSED AWAY A YEAR EARLIER, BARBARA WAS NOT THERE TO EITHER LAUGH ABOUT IT OR TELL HER SIDE OF THE STORY, AND THAT SHE TELLS THIS 30 YEARS LATER - WHAT GOOD DID THAT DO ANYWAY?). Maybe she was bitter because both their shows were more popular and she was ashamed of The Flying Nun or maybe she thought it was funny… in any case it doesn't prove anything other than Liz got frustrated about ONE INCIDENT. Though what Barbara said makes TOTAL SENSE as well regarding practicing for her night club act. You can’t take one person’s account as “fact” but say another person “spins things in a positive way.” That can’t be proved and is NOT factual.

As I have stated I loved both shows and the stars of both, but I think it is important to be fair. Both shows are classics and should stand on their own merits. Elizabeth Montgomery and Barbara Eden were brilliant in their roles and are beloved icons. That I think we can both agree on:)

catlover79
02-18-2010, 09:41 PM
^ Larry, those comments in your last paragraph were uncalled for. Consider that a warning.

ansara1
02-18-2010, 10:20 PM
Oh I am hearing what you are saying, you are just not saying anything that can be thought of as believable.

What you are doing in an argumentative/Debating style is trying to build a case to support your perspective even though it is built on a house of cards that collapses right away.

You want to see the issue as it suits you & try to twist all aspects of it to support your views even though based on merit it holds no water.

And I might add that I am not in the least interested in your personal comments directed at me, if that is the only rejoinder you can make to me views rather then merit based observations then clearly you have shown that you can not refute my points & that your position on the matter has zero credibilty.

Attack my ideas not me with your cheap comments that this is not personal then you make it so.

If I want your opinion on myself I will ask for it, otherwise keep such views to yourself & stick to objective comments based on the issue at hand & their relative merits, i am not a part of the discussion.!!

My Views are based on the proven facts & my objective views on them nothing else & i will thank you to remember it.

The point is not that both shows had animated openings, as I stated the point is that the music & the animation was complete copies of the Bewitched ones & showed no originality or deviation to that fact that is the point, the intense similarity of both to the Bewitched versions not that it was animated, i would think that was rather obvious.

Oh Man give me a break even Rosie said the IDOJ theme song was almost exactly the same as Bewitched, that is clear to the ear.

That the scripts of Bewitched were copied by Sydney Sheldon is proven by the utter sameness in the episodes he made after almost the same episode had previously appeared on Bewitched that is Proof & all one needs, being there is moot, if a thief walks around with Bills with the stolen serial numbers on them then one can rest assured that he did not get them from the tooth fairy.

Bewitched did not copy characters, dialogue or scenes from BB&C or I Married a Witch as IDOJ did re Bewitched, there in lies the difference, it matters not that IDOJ took a general theme & genra & general characters but rather they took specific aspects of Bewitched & in detail that makes them the thief's that they are.

You don't have any examples of anything that are valid on the two shows copying each other equally, 15 of Bewitched the same as IDOJ, that is delusional & rubbish.

It is fact that all writers on Bewitched were told to not write for IDOJ & that James Henerson was FIRED for writing for IDOJ.

There were only one or two examples one could give where Bewitched did something after IDOJ & they were from original Bewitched scripts stolen by SS, also fact & documented History.

SS did not need scripts, all he had to do was watch the episode get a 16mm print of it & use it to make a copied IDOJ version of it, that is what he did over & over again.

Simply saying there were 15 episodes is laughable & absurd, if not give the examples otherwise your stating that can not be taken seriously, i think the number 15 is rubbish, it is one or two tops.

I am not saying SS could not write, i am saying if it looks like a Duck, sounds like a Duck & Quacks like a Duck it is a Duck, & his Duck rewrote scripts in specificity of Bewitched to suit IDOJ & that is simply a matter of on screen record & obvious to anyone watching both shows.

I have seen all IDOJ episodes many times over the years.

What the Heck does Bewitched remakes of episodes have to do with IDOJ copying Bewitched, That is just throwing mud at the wall & has zero to do with the matter at hand, you just want to see the two shows & their stars in a certain way in regards to each other & can't deal with the obvious reality that existed then as well as now in regard to the two shows.

Man you are nuts, go take your medication, your posts are absurd, i usually never comment personally about someone but your rantings are not rational, your ready for a padded cell in my honest estimation.

Larry Tate :)


This nasty reply proves my point.

In one earlier reply to me you tell me I wasn't there so I can't know what really happened in this one you say that you not being there is "moot." Which is it?

You don't have a factual answer to the timeline of Jeannie having a script one year earlier than Bewitched....or an answer to how Sheldon could get so many of the Bewitched scripts so easily even though Asher and Montgomery were infuriated by him and Jeannie....or to the blatant rip off of I Love Lucy - so you sling mud at me.

I never said anything nasty about you, personally. Though I hate the facts I presented were so difficult for you to takethatyou had to stoop to such a level.

I will get your 15 copied episodes for you.

Take care:)

ansara1
02-19-2010, 12:34 AM
Below are 15 copied or partially copied episodes and or character / events that appeared on both.

The synopsis and dates, etc. of these episodes can be verified on-line where Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie episode guides are located such as fan websites, etc. or in Herbie J. Pilato's "Bewitched Forever" book (for the Bewitched episodes) and Steve Cox "Dreaming of Jeannie" book (for the I Dream of Jeannie episodes).

****
I actually have 16 listed.

****

Jeannie Did It First 16 Times:

1)
In the I Dream of Jeannie episode #14 "What House Across The Street?," Jeannie places a house on the vacant lot across the street (12/18/65). This house is for her fake mother and father, who she conjures up in a plot to make Anthony jealous. Dr. Bellows sees the house, and thinks he's losing his mind. In # 80, "Endora Moves In for a Spell," Endora also places the same house on the vacant lot across the street. Gladys sees the house, and thinks she's losing her mind (10/20/66).

2)
In the I Dream of Jeannie episode #54 "My Incredible Shrinking Master," Jeannie accidentally shrinks Tony down to doll size. Tony is seen being threatened by a neighbor's cat (3/6/67). In 141, "Samantha’s Wedding Present," Endora shrinks Darrin down to doll size. Darrin is seen being threatened by a neighbor's dog (9/26/68).

3)
In #26 "My Master, the Great Rembrandt" (4/23/66) Jeannie switches Tony's attempt at a Rembrandt with a real one. When the bidding starts at the NASA cherity auction the art experts bid into the thousands. Endora switches Sam's first attempt at her painting that's to be displayed and bid on at the local community college with a famous French artist's painting being shown in Paris. When the bidding starts Darrin has to bid hundreds of dollars to keep his client from buying the "switched painting" in #98 "Art for Sam's Sake" (2/23/67)

****and later in #198 "Mona Sammy" (4/2/70) Endora replaces Van Gogh's signature on one of his original paintings with that of "Durweed's."****

4)
In #23 "Watch the Birdie" (2/26/66) Major Nelson's golf game is magically assisted by Jeannie. Samantha gives exactly the same type of assistance to her husband in #114 "Birdies, Bogeys, and Baxter" (10/19/67).

5)
An entire episode devoted to Napoleon was first done on I Dream of Jeannie #58 "My Master, Napoleon's Buddy" (4/3/67). He also had his day on Bewitched in #147 "Samantha's French Pastry" (11/14/68).

6)
Jeannie blinks up a double (or split - as Jeannie explains it to Tony as "The Indian Rope Trick") of Tony who has no problem marrying a genie - which is what Jeannie would like in #15 "Too Many Tonys" (12/25/65). Endora creates a double (or split) of Darrin, not once but TWICE. The doubles are split between a fun loving / and work oriented side and which is exactly what Endora wants in #68 "Divided He Falls" (5/5/66) and #185 "Samantha's Better Halves" one stays home and the other goes on a business trip
(1/1/70).

7)
Primates being turned into men was done on both shows but it was first shown on I Dream of Jeannie #62 "Fly Me to the Moon" (9/12/67), and then on Bewitched #162 "Going Ape" (2/27/69).

8)
The 60s musical group Boyce & Hart are sought after to sing at an event. They first appeared on I Dream of Jeannie #67 "Jeannie the Hip Hippie" (10/17/67). Their appearance on Bewitched came in #192 "Serena Stops the Show" (2/19/70).

9)
Bank robbers are the subjects of both shows but it was first done in I Dream of Jeannie #73 "Jeannie and the Great Bank Robbery" (12/5/67).
The money stealing steals the show in Bewitched #223 "Money Happy Returns" (3/18/71).

10)
Characters switching voices first happened on I Dream of Jeannie when Roger and Tony switch bodies / voices in #87 "Haven't I Seen Me Someplace Before?" (3/26/68). Samantha and Darrin switch voices in #150 "Samantha Loses Her Voice" (12/5/68)

11)
Tony keeps falling asleep at awkward moments because of a spell that's making him ill in #105 "Is There a Doctor in the House?" (2/17/69). Samantha keeps falling asleep due to sickness in #186 "Samantha's Lost Weekend"
(1/8/70).

12)
Magic substances make supporting characters younger. This first happened to Amanda Bellows on I Dream of Jeannie #118 "Jeannie's Beauty Cream"
(10/14/69) and then to Larry Tate on Bewitched #247 "Serena's Youth Pill"
(2/5/72.

13)
The main male characters of both shows briefly acquired magical powers of their own, but Tony did it first in # 65 "My Turned On Master" (10/3/67). Darrin got his own powers in # 215 "The Return of Darrin the Bold" (2/4/71).

****
Darrin also got his own personal magical amulet in #178 "Daddy Comes for a Visit Pt I" (11/20/69), # 179 "Darrin the Warlock Pt II" (11/27/69).
****


14)
Jeannie is asked to guest on a TV show but doesn't make her appearance in #106 "The Biggest Star in Hollywood" (2/24/69). Tabitha is asked to guest on a TV show but doesn't make an appearance in # 236 "TV or Not TV"
(11/13/71).


15)
In #41 "The Girl Who Never Had a Birthday, Part 2" (11/21/66) Jeannie blinks up various characters from history including Benjamin Franklin, Henry VIII, and Cleopatra. Cleopatra was zapped up by both Samantha in #173: "Samantha's Caesar Salad" as lure to remind Caesar of why he wants to return to the past. King Henry VIII shows up on Bewitched in #229: "How Not to Lose Your Head to King Henry VIII, Parts 1 & 2", though instead of him coming to the present, Samantha meets him in the past.

16)
Samantha and Jeannie go back in ANCIENT OR HISTORIC TIME hundreds or thousands of years numerous times. Jeannie first went back 2,000 years in # 2 "My Hero" (9/25/65) and later Samantha went back several hundred years for the 1st time in # 77 "A Most Unusual Wood Nymph" (10/13/66).

****

This list entails complete copies (some turned "inside out" or "in reverse" later on Bewitched such as the 'signature switch' on "My Master, the Great Rembrandt" and "Art For Sam's Sake" for example), partial copies, and characters and / or events that showed up on both shows.

I also have a list which shows where on 15 episodes "Bewitched Did It First" if anyone is interested in seeing those listed.
****

comedyfreak
02-19-2010, 05:57 AM
I think we can safely say Liz and Barabara did get along they were not enemies.

Arfies
02-20-2010, 01:23 AM
ansara1- Was that by chance an audio interview conducted by Herbie J Pilato? I ask because there's some of the exact same quotes in there from Pilato's "Remember" magazine article on "Bewitched" that I have. Where'd you get it? That's cool!