Audrey and Mother Dexter

[LittleRickyII]

These are two of my favorite supporting characters on Phyllis, but it has occurred to me they aren't really that original. Audrey seems to me to be an elderly version of Georgette Franklin. And Mother Dexter seems like a very elderly Rhoda. What do you think?

[scotsguy]

I think Mother Dexter if anything,was an early version of Sophia from The Golden Girls except she really was that old.
Audrey was totally away with it,bless her.
In the first season of MTM Henry Jones played a character not unlike Jonathan,Mary Jackson was his wife,I wonder if she would have been Audrey,if not for her role in "The Waltons"?

[LittleRickyII]

I think Mother Dexter if anything,was an early version of Sophia from The Golden Girls except she really was that old.

I was thinking more along the lines of MTM characters, but yeah, I can see that. Though for me, there's one big difference between Mother Dexter and Sophia: I think Mother Dexter is hilarious, but I never found Sophia funny at all. I'm not exactly a fan of The Golden Girls anyway, but that Sophia character just doesn't do anything for me. She seems too much like a cartoon; I can't relate to her as a human being. I don't know whether it's the way Estelle Getty played her, or the lines she was given, but the character just never rang true with me. Mother Dexter, on the other hand, I feel like I know her. Part of it is probably the inexplicable coldness and rudeness Sophia exhibits towards her own daughter. Those exchanges just aren't believable to me, and I find them uncomfortable, whereas I can totally understand Mother Dexter's disdain for Phyllis. Phyllis deserves everything Mother Dexter slings at her! :lol:

Audrey was totally away with it,bless her.
In the first season of MTM Henry Jones played a character not unlike Jonathan,Mary Jackson was his wife,I wonder if she would have been Audrey,if not for her role in "The Waltons"?

I don't recall the MTM episode you're referring to. Was Mary Jackson's character similar to Audrey?

[scotsguy]

Oh I liked "The Golden Girls" ,I think the whole thing about Dorothy and Sophia was that there was a love/hate relationship there.
The episode of MTM I was referring to was the season1 episode "Howard's Girl".
Richard Schaal had allready played the annoying Howard Arnell,who was a bit of an idiot,Schall played in this episode Paul Arnell,the sensable one,the twins never were in the same episode.
When Paul took Mary to see his parents,Henry Jones and Mary Jackson,Howard had wrongly told them Mary,was his girl.
No,the Mary Jackson character looked like Audrey but wasn't dizzy,she was actually very cold to Mary in that episode,Henry Jones was very like Jonathan,the same dry wit.
Interestingly,when MTM was being created,the writers thought of Mary's ex financee(who we see in the pilot episode)being in it more but having his parents in it,who really like Mary.

[OOliver]

I honestly think anyone (like myself) who is Italian Catholic can see the true dynamic between Sophia/Dorothy! It rings 'true' for many of us.

As for 'Phyllis' and the dynamics between Mother Dexter/Phyllis (which there is no blood relation) or Mother Dexter/Jonathan/Audrey it comes across more as true WASP.

Both were funny in their own way.

[LittleRickyII]

Oh I liked "The Golden Girls" ,I think the whole thing about Dorothy and Sophia was that there was a love/hate relationship there.

I see that, I just never got the hate part of the equation. What's to hate about Dorothy? She seems like a perfectly decent person and does her best for her mother. The meanness never seemed to have a point. And besides that, the Sophia character and the way she carries herself comes across to me as inauthentic and kind of over the top. So it pretty much leaves me cold.


The episode of MTM I was referring to was the season1 episode "Howard's Girl".
Richard Schaal had allready played the annoying Howard Arnell,who was a bit of an idiot,Schall played in this episode Paul Arnell,the sensable one,the twins never were in the same episode.
When Paul took Mary to see his parents,Henry Jones and Mary Jackson,Howard had wrongly told them Mary,was his girl.

That's why I didn't remember! The first season of TMTMS I dont' care for and it's the only season I haven't bought yet. And I'm not sure if I will. Back in the days TMTMS was on Nick@Nite, if the opening credits began with "how will you make it on your own?" instead of "who can turn the world on with her smile?" I'd turn the channel. I have seen all the first season episodes, though, at one time or another, but it's been a very long time. And I vaguely remember the scene you're referring to.

No,the Mary Jackson character looked like Audrey but wasn't dizzy,she was actually very cold to Mary in that episode,Henry Jones was very like Jonathan,the same dry wit.
Interestingly,when MTM was being created,the writers thought of Mary's ex financee(who we see in the pilot episode)being in it more but having his parents in it,who really like Mary.

That would have been an interesting approach, I suppose, but I'm glad they went a different direction and focused more on her relationships with her colleagues at work.

[scotsguy]

Yes I know what you mean about season1 of MTM,I don't like the theme from that season either or the loud theme tune at the end credits.
Lou is quite different on the first season,shouting at everyone but Ed Asner says he learnt to play with sarcasm as well as anger after season one.
Ted starts of just having a big ego and got funnier and stupider as the seasons went on.
Rhoda and Phyllis,stay the same really and I like having Cloris in the show more in season1,in seasons 4 and 5 she was only in three episodes of each season as she was so busy.

[LittleRickyII]

Yes I know what you mean about season1 of MTM,I don't like the theme from that season either or the loud theme tune at the end credits.

I didn't mean that I would turn the channel because I didn't like the theme music in the first season. What I meant was as soon as I heard the lyrics "how will you make it on your own" I knew it was a first season episode. That's why I turned the channel. It's nothing against the lyrics or theme music, just the fact that they alert that a boring, unfunny first-season episode is about to air.

Lou is quite different on the first season,shouting at everyone but Ed Asner says he learnt to play with sarcasm as well as anger after season one.

I think in the first season he was playing a more stereotypical 1960s TV sitcom boss figure. Although not as extreme, there are shades of Mr. Mooney (The Lucy Show) and Sgt. Carter (Gomer Pyle U.S.M.C.) in that early Mr. Grant. That characterization doesn't play so well against characters like Mary and Murray, who are competent employees.

Ted starts of just having a big ego and got funnier and stupider as the seasons went on.

I think Ted seemed really two-dimensional at the beginning. Ted is at or near the top of my favorite TMTMS characters, but I didn't find him at all funny in the first season. In those early episodes, he would come out and drop a dumb line and walk away. We never saw a complete person. The character seemed kind of cartoonish early on.

Rhoda and Phyllis,stay the same really and I like having Cloris in the show more in season1,in seasons 4 and 5 she was only in three episodes of each season as she was so busy.

Was she in the show more often in the first season? I didn't think she appeared more than four times in any particular season. It's interesting to think about it, but in just the 24 episodes of the first season of Phyllis, Cloris Leachman probably played that character more times than she did in the combined five seasons she was on TMTMS.

[scotsguy]

Cloris played Phyllis in eleven episodes on the first season of MTM.
The most she did in any season of MTM,think she only did four or five in season2,by seasons 4 and 5 of MTM,she only did three episodes a season although she did a memorable guest appearance at "Rhoda's Wedding".

Yes there are a few hit and misses on season1,the thing about MTM is that it got funnier and funnier each season.

[McGillicuddy]

I agree about the similarity in Audrey and Georgette. Audrey reminds me of a cross between Georgette Franklin and Edith Bunker!

Audrey and Mother Dexter are my favorites too. I also like the first Julie.

[LittleRickyII]

Cloris played Phyllis in eleven episodes on the first season of MTM.
The most she did in any season of MTM,think she only did four or five in season2,by seasons 4 and 5 of MTM,she only did three episodes a season although she did a memorable guest appearance at "Rhoda's Wedding".

Very interesting. I didn't realize she was in that many episodes in the first season. I wonder what her arrangement was to only have to make occasional appearances and always be billed as "special guest star"?

[scotsguy]

The writers of MTM billed Cloris as a special guest star as she was so busy with other things.
They did also say Phyllis started off as not too big a character but Cloris was so good,the part was expanded.

[firestorm566]

episode counts:

Phyllis appears in this many episodes per season:

MTM:
Season 1- 11
Season 2- 12
Season 3- 4
Season 4- 3
Season 5- 3
Season 6- 0
Season 7- 1
34 episodes

Rhoda:
2 episodes

Phyllis:
48 episodes

Bringing the grand total of television episodes where Cloris Leachman portrays Phyllis Lindstrom to...

84

[scotsguy]

Hey good work Firestorm,good to see all the Phyllis episodes listed.

[stanwyckfan07]

Judith Lowry and Jane Rose made this show worth watching for me, they were hilarious. Cloris of course is a great actress but they stripped Phyllis of all of her sauce on this show.

I can see a bit of Georgette in Audrey but nothing in Mother Dexter to remind me of Rhoda, she's way too tart. They are "stock characters" in a way but that's true of nearly every sitcom character ever. I see Audrey being more of a Mrs. Howell type with a dose of Gracie Allen, Mother Dexter Granny (Moses) Clampett crossed with the sarcastic side of Ethel Mertz.

[PracTz]

I always thought Audrey was relieved to have Phyllis in the house when Mother Dexter came to live with them- if for no other reason than to be a more obvious target for MD's barbs than herself! There were a few times MD sniped at Audrey [usually when she was also putting down her own son Jonathan- Audrey's spouse] but Audrey was more of a harmless flake rather than a self-important pain which made Phyllis the better target for MD [and the viewers]!:lol:
Would anyone have thought it funny had Rhoda dissed Georgette? Nah, but everyone loved it when she did it to Phyllis!