Rhoda - Season One DVD Review

[TJ]

“My name is Rhoda Morgenstern. I was born in the Bronx, New York in December 1941.” That was how Valerie Harper began every single episode of the first season of Rhoda, the first spinoff of the popular 1970s TV series, The Mary Tyler Moore Show. And now, that very first season of Rhoda is available on DVD, for the very first time! Season One contains all 24 episodes of the 1974-1975 season of the series on a four disc DVD set, just in time for the 35th anniversary.

Rhoda Morgenstern began as a character on The Mary Tyler Moore Show, but proved to be popular enough to earn her own sitcom by 1974. The series begins as she takes a vacation back home to New York and stays with her sister, Brenda (Julie Kavner). While staying with her sister, she meets a construction worker named Joe (David Groh) and they hit it off almost immediately. Things go so well that Rhoda decides to stay in Manhattan for a while, but as she emphasizes in her opening monologue, “New York, this is your last chance!” The series ran for five seasons on CBS and Rhoda and Joe eventually married each other... and then eventually divorced each other... but the series went on anyway. The show also stars Nancy Walker as Rhoda’s overbearing mother, Ida, and Harold Gould as her more understand father, Martin.

Read our review by Skees here:
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/rhodaseason1dvdreview.html

Please post any questions or comments about this set.

[TeeVeeCloset]

“My name is Rhoda Morgenstern. I was born in the Bronx, New York in December 1941.” That was how Valerie Harper began every single episode of the first season of Rhoda, the first spinoff of the popular 1970s TV series, The Mary Tyler Moore Show. And now, that very first season of Rhoda is available on DVD, for the very first time! Season One contains all 24 episodes of the 1974-1975 season of the series on a four disc DVD set, just in time for the 35th anniversary.

Rhoda Morgenstern began as a character on The Mary Tyler Moore Show, but proved to be popular enough to earn her own sitcom by 1974. The series begins as she takes a vacation back home to New York and stays with her sister, Brenda (Julie Kavner). While staying with her sister, she meets a construction worker named Joe (David Groh) and they hit it off almost immediately. Things go so well that Rhoda decides to stay in Manhattan for a while, but as she emphasizes in her opening monologue, “New York, this is your last chance!” The series ran for five seasons on CBS and Rhoda and Joe eventually married each other... and then eventually divorced each other... but the series went on anyway. The show also stars Nancy Martin as Rhoda’s overbearing mother, Ida, and Harold Gould as her more understand father, Martin.

Read our review by Skees here:
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/rhodaseason1dvdreview.html

Please post any questions or comments about this set.


WOW...EDITED EPISODES.....there goes the Shout factory appreciation thread....lol....I still love them and are leaders with MPI in releasing stuff other studios wouldn't touch and for that I will always support them. But our friend Shout contributor admitted that the episodes would contain flaws but they would not be edited.....I am not starting a war here, but he has made many contradictory statements regarding many sets....my suggestion would be, if he doesn't know for sure and he is representing the company, make sure the post is absolutely accurate.

Here is what Brian Ward, a sitcoms poster and Shout rep posted in February 2009 regarding the upcoming Rhoda set...it is shown here unedited and unaltered for factual information only.....

"I actually think we did very well with getting the complete episodes of Rhoda. I will forwarn you that there are some occasional tape problems, simply from the age and storage of the material, but I don't think it'll distract from your entertainment too much. We actually spent months going through masters, returning them and bringing new ones in, and have found the absolute best that Fox and a couple private collectors have to offer.

As for the bonus material, the interview with James L. Brooks especially was a dream come true for me. It was a lot of fun. He's a great guy and I think it comes off rather well in the piece.

It's a pretty good set. I'm happy with it and I think you will be, too."

[Lee G]

Upon reading this review, I will save my money and not buy this DVD. I too, was under the impression the episodes would be uncut with some minor video issues. The edited episodes really kill it for me, this will be exactly like Father Knows Best season one. At least Room 222 season one has all uncut episodes, I will be ordering that DVD.

In my opinion, Shout Factory is not all that great. Some of their releases are good, some are bad. With these bad releases like FKB S1 and Rhoda S1, if that is the best they can do then they should not issue it at all. I have a beef with this company anyway because of the non-release for The Bill Cosby Show season 2.

[catlover79]

Edited episodes - what a bummer. :mad: I still will check this out of the library, because I have not seen many of the episodes. I also look forward to checking out the extras.

[gotsmart]

What a disappointment. I was really looking forward to this release. Hopefully they will be able to include unedited episodes on future seasons (if they are released, I imagine that many people will be canceling their pre-orders.)

[Benno123]

And I just hit the cancel button for my order :(

And I was looking forward to this release, too. I will not knowingly pay for inferior quality. Thanks for the review and letting the fans know ahead of time!

[Eric Paddon]

I'm more ticked off that Shout decided to invest their money on blatantly compromised material instead of saving to get out more of their abandoned titles.

[JAldridge86]

Yeah...cancelling mine too. I'll be happy with my TV Land recordings, and the 1992 MTM videos.

[TVFactFan]

Edited Episodes + horrible quality=NO PURCHASE


Unbelievable. I just feel sorry for the people who are fans of the show who are not able to read this review and when but the DVD and get a big disapppointment

[catlover79]

“My name is Rhoda Morgenstern. I was born in the Bronx, New York in December 1941.” That was how Valerie Harper began every single episode of the first season of Rhoda, the first spinoff of the popular 1970s TV series, The Mary Tyler Moore Show. And now, that very first season of Rhoda is available on DVD, for the very first time! Season One contains all 24 episodes of the 1974-1975 season of the series on a four disc DVD set, just in time for the 35th anniversary.

Rhoda Morgenstern began as a character on The Mary Tyler Moore Show, but proved to be popular enough to earn her own sitcom by 1974. The series begins as she takes a vacation back home to New York and stays with her sister, Brenda (Julie Kavner). While staying with her sister, she meets a construction worker named Joe (David Groh) and they hit it off almost immediately. Things go so well that Rhoda decides to stay in Manhattan for a while, but as she emphasizes in her opening monologue, “New York, this is your last chance!” The series ran for five seasons on CBS and Rhoda and Joe eventually married each other... and then eventually divorced each other... but the series went on anyway. The show also stars Nancy Martin as Rhoda’s overbearing mother, Ida, and Harold Gould as her more understand father, Martin.

Read our review by Skees here:
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/rhodaseason1dvdreview.html

Please post any questions or comments about this set.
Not to be picky, but shouldn't that be Nancy WALKER playing Ida??

[Marvo301]

Not to be picky, but shouldn't that be Nancy WALKER playing Ida??
YES!!!! It should!

[DallasFan]

Well I am cancelling my pre-order too. What a bummer. I was looking forward to this show on DVD. I guess I will buy something else in its place.

[JMFabiano524]

I'll probably end up buying it, just cause it is Rhoda and how else will I get it? (If anyone knows anyone who DOES have pristine, unedited episodes, please dish it out ASAP!) And no sales = no further releases.

As for editing, as long as the show is still funny, it's often overrated.

Doesn't someone at Shout! post here? Maybe he could give some insight as to what happened? And I wonder how much of this comes down to Fox, and if so, I am now wondering what Mary Tyler Moore ever did to them to deserve having her material treated like this? (did Fox give them lousy prints on purpose so they don't overshadow their own releases, like of TMTMS whenever THAT will be now???)

Well...is the vaunted first episode scene with Mary saved at least? (I know Rhoda's Wedding is in the original format)

I wonder if Shout can come up with replacement discs someday, like the whole CBS/Fugitive incident.

I am so down today...what once seemed like the most promising time for MTM Universe fans is crashing all around me.

[TVFactFan]

I'll probably end up buying it, just cause it is Rhoda and how else will I get it? (If anyone knows anyone who DOES have pristine, unedited episodes, please dish it out ASAP!) And no sales = no further releases.

As for editing, as long as the show is still funny...I guess I'll live.

Doesn't someone at Shout! post here? Maybe he could give some insight as to what happened? And I wonder how much of this comes down to Fox, and if so, what did Mary Tyler Moore do to them to have her material treated like this? (did Fox give them lousy prints on purpose so they don't overshadow their own releases, like of TMTMS whenever THAT will be now???)

Well...is the vaunted first episode scene with Mary saved at least? (I know Rhoda's Wedding is in the original format)

I wonder if Shout can come up with replacement discs someday, like the whole CBS/Fugitive incident.

I am so down today...what once seemed like the most promising time for MTM Universe fans is crashing all around me.



I don't think no one cares about a future release if the first release is THIS BAD. I mean you want to spend money on Poor Quality and Edited Eps? Why?? And I know there is no way to get great Quality eps that are UNCUT but that doesn't mean you take your hard earned money and buy CRAP

[JMFabiano524]

I don't think no one cares about a future release if the first release is THIS BAD. I mean you want to spend money on Poor Quality and Edited Eps? Why?? And I know there is no way to get great Quality eps that are UNCUT but that doesn't mean you take your hard earned money and buy CRAP

Like I said, just cause it's Rhoda and how else will I get them?

And who's to say that if there's later seasons, they won't improve? (Shout! did rectify similar problems in the past) Unless I am right about my imaginary Fox conspiracies.

[TeeVeeCloset]

Doesn't someone at Shout! post here? Maybe he could give some insight as to what happened? And I wonder how much of this comes down to Fox, and if so, I am now wondering what Mary Tyler Moore ever did to them to deserve having her material treated like this? (did Fox give them lousy prints on purpose so they don't overshadow their own releases, like of TMTMS whenever THAT will be now???)



Here is what Brian Ward, a sitcoms poster and Shout rep posted in February 2009 regarding the upcoming Rhoda set...it is shown here unedited and unaltered for factual information only.....

"I actually think we did very well with getting the complete episodes of Rhoda. I will forwarn you that there are some occasional tape problems, simply from the age and storage of the material, but I don't think it'll distract from your entertainment too much. We actually spent months going through masters, returning them and bringing new ones in, and have found the absolute best that Fox and a couple private collectors have to offer.

As for the bonus material, the interview with James L. Brooks especially was a dream come true for me. It was a lot of fun. He's a great guy and I think it comes off rather well in the piece.

It's a pretty good set. I'm happy with it and I think you will be, too."

[JMFabiano524]

Here is what Brian Ward, a sitcoms poster and Shout rep posted in February 2009 regarding the upcoming Rhoda set...it is shown here unedited and unaltered for factual information only.....

"I actually think we did very well with getting the complete episodes of Rhoda. I will forwarn you that there are some occasional tape problems, simply from the age and storage of the material, but I don't think it'll distract from your entertainment too much. We actually spent months going through masters, returning them and bringing new ones in, and have found the absolute best that Fox and a couple private collectors have to offer.

As for the bonus material, the interview with James L. Brooks especially was a dream come true for me. It was a lot of fun. He's a great guy and I think it comes off rather well in the piece.

It's a pretty good set. I'm happy with it and I think you will be, too."

Well he owes us a little more, apparently!

[Chrisothebigc]

This is indeed a serious let down. I was hoping for the best, although not to say perfection. I find it hard to believe that there are not better masters available, and I don't doubt for a second that Fox is holding out.

Probably the missing scene with Mary is not included in the first ep, as the running time is so short. That really sucks!

Having said all of this, I will be buying the set. It is what it is, and that's all there is....at least for now. I purchased all of the videos that were released, and have since sold them off. If I end up disgusted with the dvd set, then that option will be there, also. I love the wedding episode, and for that alone, I will plunk down my (yes, hard earned!) money. The second ep is a real fave, and that appears to be unedited. I'm not at all happy about the flaws, but I still want it. I will enjoy what I can, and forget the rest. The only other season that I really liked was seaon two. We'll see what the future brings. To buy or not to buy is anyone's choice, but I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Chris

[TVFactFan]

This is indeed a serious let down. I was hoping for the best, although not to say perfection. I find it hard to believe that there are not better masters available, and I don't doubt for a second that Fox is holding out.

Probably the missing scene with Mary is not included in the first ep, as the running time is so short. That really sucks!

Having said all of this, I will be buying the set. It is what it is, and that's all there is....at least for now. I purchased all of the videos that were released, and have since sold them off. If I end up disgusted with the dvd set, then that option will be there, also. I love the wedding episode, and for that alone, I will plunk down my (yes, hard earned!) money. The second ep is a real fave, and that appears to be unedited. I'm not at all happy about the flaws, but I still want it. I will enjoy what I can, and forget the rest. The only other season that I really liked was seaon two. We'll see what the future brings. To buy or not to buy is anyone's choice, but I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Chris



I can see you renting it but BUING IT after you know what the low lights of the DVD are? Come on, I'm sure you have better things to do with your money

[Chrisothebigc]

Well, as I said, it's a choice. According to information posted on the Shout!Factory website, the unedited masters in the Fox "vault" are quite deteriorated. What is on the dvd set is truly the best that could be come up with, at least in the forseeable future. 9 of the episodes are unedited, and while I would prefer they all be complete, despite any damage to the negatives...this is what Shout felt was the best they could come up with. The choice was to release "Rhoda" (as is), or not to release it at all. I am glad at least that Shout did not claim that most of the ep's are unedited, and pass the set off as the "complete" first season. Others have done this, and that does tick me off.

As I said, I will enjoy what there is to be enjoyed, going in with my eyes wide open. It is what it is. I enjoy my WKRP dvd set, even though it isn't perfect. I will do so with "Rhoda", also.

[JMFabiano524]

Well, as I said, it's a choice. According to information posted on the Shout!Factory website, the unedited masters in the Fox "vault" are quite deteriorated. What is on the dvd set is truly the best that could be come up with, at least in the forseeable future. 9 of the episodes are unedited, and while I would prefer they all be complete, despite any damage to the negatives...this is what Shout felt was the best they could come up with. The choice was to release "Rhoda" (as is), or not to release it at all. I am glad at least that Shout did not claim that most of the ep's are unedited, and pass the set off as the "complete" first season. Others have done this, and that does tick me off.

As I said, I will enjoy what there is to be enjoyed, going in with my eyes wide open. It is what it is. I enjoy my WKRP dvd set, even though it isn't perfect. I will do so with "Rhoda", also.

Really? When did they say this? More importantly, is it something other than the quote people keep repeating ad nauseum?

I wonder why Rhoda was in poor shape, while the other shows out of the MTM library look better? Is it because the other programs have been seen in reruns more often and they just didn't bother cleaning up the Rhoda tapes as a result, just letting them go to pot? I think the last time someone reran Rhoda was in the '90s...whereas MTM, St. Elsewhere, Hill St., and others have seen reruns well into the 2000s (we KNOW they did new prints for the latter two...remember the Bravo airings where they PLASTERED the MTM logo with 20th Television? Thank goodness that trend ended!)

Well at least something is still there, other shows have been completely lost due to erasure and other forms of destruction.

Has Shout! distributed any other Fox-owned shows before? What kind of copies did they get from those?

[Chrisothebigc]

JM, check the Shout!Factory message board. That's all I know, so far.

[JMFabiano524]

JM, check the Shout!Factory message board. That's all I know, so far.

Ah I think it was a post I started. So maybe it looks like something neither Shout nor Fox could do anything about...unless the better prints are somewhere in a cave in Timbuktu?

Again, I wonder if Fox and Shout have dealt with each other in the past? If so, have there been similar problems?

[TVFactFan]

Ah I think it was a post I started. So maybe it looks like something neither Shout nor Fox could do anything about...unless the better prints are somewhere in a cave in Timbuktu?

Again, I wonder if Fox and Shout have dealt with each other in the past? If so, have there been similar problems?


Cave in Timbuktu-LOL-LOL


I know this is a tough decision for Rhoda fans, not sure what i would do if this happened with a show like CPO Sharkey

[catlover79]

Are ALL of the episodes cut?? Does anyone know the exact number of edited episodes on this set?

[TVFactFan]

Are ALL of the episodes cut?? Does anyone know the exact number of edited episodes on this set?


It was stated that 15 of the 24 eps were edited in the sitcomsonline review

[catlover79]

It was stated that 15 of the 24 eps were edited in the sitcomsonline review
OUCH!! :mad:

[TV_Fan]

Again, I wonder if Fox and Shout have dealt with each other in the past? If so, have there been similar problems?

I believe the first DVD set Shout! released that was licesnsed from Fox is the second volume of Son Of The Beach. That is a recent show. Second set is the just released Mr Belvedere.

As has been stated elsewhere, Rhoda was not produced by Fox. Room 222 which was will be release duncut, but the video is less than perfect. Rhoda is much more than a Fox-Shout issue. Rhoda was owned by I believe 2 other companies before being owned by Fox. As Brian said on the Shout! thread, some episodes on Rhoda came from private collectors. It looks like Shout! did the best they could with what they could find.

[TVFactFan]

I believe the first DVD set Shout! released that was licesnsed from Fox is the second volume of Son Of The Beach. That is a recent show. Second set is the just released Mr Belvedere.

As has been stated elsewhere, Rhoda was not produced by Fox. Room 222 which was will be release duncut, but the video is less than perfect. Rhoda is much more than a Fox-Shout issue. Rhoda was owned by I believe 2 other companies before being owned by Fox. As Brian said on the Shout! thread, some episodes on Rhoda came from private collectors. It looks like Shout! did the best they could with what they could find.


Private collectors?????????

[TV_Fan]

Private collectors?????????

That's what he said in this thread:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?p=4134296#post4134296 post # 230

[DallasFan]

OUCH!! :mad:

Yup, and the quality of eppys are terrible. I am not going to spend my money on something so badly done. It's a shame because I was looking forward to owning this set.

[skees53]

Not to be picky, but shouldn't that be Nancy WALKER playing Ida??

Ha, it most certainly should be! I guess I was thinking of the name of Rhoda's father at the same time as I was thinking of Nancy's last name... oops!

[skees53]

Another thing that I failed to mention in the review is that this set was SUPPOSED to contain an interview with Julie Kavner and Harold Gould, and it is even mentioned in the press release. Somehow, that did NOT make it onto the set as expected...

[snowpeck]

Is the opening scene of the pilot with Mary seeing Rhoda off at the airport intact? I viewed this episode at the Paley Media Center in Los Angeles just for that scene, and thankfully it was intact there - in excellent quality too.

Greg

[Kristen]

Is the opening scene of the pilot with Mary seeing Rhoda off at the airport intact? I viewed this episode at the Paley Media Center in Los Angeles just for that scene, and thankfully it was intact there - in excellent quality too.

Greg
So that scene actually does exist? I've always wondered if it was some sort of urban legend or something. LOL. Man, I'd LOVE to see it! If it is on the DVD, that would def. make up for the cut eps, at least somewhat!

- Kristen

[Chrisothebigc]

Kristen, in the closing credits if the first episode, you see a quick clip of Rhoda at the airport. I remember when the first two ep's of "Rhoda" were released on vhs (along with a slew of other MTM shows) the box claimed "Guest Starring Mary Tyler Moore". But, nooooooooooooo....

[JMFabiano524]

Another thing that I failed to mention in the review is that this set was SUPPOSED to contain an interview with Julie Kavner and Harold Gould, and it is even mentioned in the press release. Somehow, that did NOT make it onto the set as expected...

Gould I don't know about, but don't you think Kavner's a little busy right now? (Does she maybe think she's moved on, I mean, being on the MOST POPULAR AND WELL-KNOWN ANIMATED SERIES IN THE UNIVERSE)

Now my question is...where was Valerie? We know she's not opposed to revisiting her classic character (as seen on her participation on the MTM bonuses)

[Benno123]

Kristen, in the closing credits if the first episode, you see a quick clip of Rhoda at the airport. I remember when the first two ep's of "Rhoda" were released on vhs (along with a slew of other MTM shows) the box claimed "Guest Starring Mary Tyler Moore". But, nooooooooooooo....

I bought that tape many, many, many years ago just for that because it says right on the box that MTM was on the show. But upon watching, she is no where to be seen!

[OOliver]

I must say I appreciate the honest review. I was looking forward to purchasing it (this was one of my favorite shows of the 70s), but I won't be now. Why intentionally buy something of such poor quality? When videotapes were released (in the 80s) of such poor quailty, it was cause to return them!

It makes you wonder - if this was the BEST that Shout! could do, why bother doing it at all? :confused: Wouldn't it have been best if they aborted the project (when they were realizing such problems) and be honest with fans about the situation, rather than release it anyhow?

[skees53]

Is the opening scene of the pilot with Mary seeing Rhoda off at the airport intact? I viewed this episode at the Paley Media Center in Los Angeles just for that scene, and thankfully it was intact there - in excellent quality too.

Greg

No, the scene is NOT intact. In fact, you can even tell that something was cut out of the closing credits on the DVD set (because there is a strange and abrupt jump in the music), and my guess is that they cut out the credit for Mary Tyler Moore. She is still seen on the credit where the several characters that DID appear in the episode are credited, although even that screen credits an Airport Guard... and there are no airport scenes anywhere within the episode...

[snowpeck]

Ugh. Well I don't think I'll be picking up this one... will just stick to my tapes from Nick at Nite. And because of the existence of that at the museum, I will never believe Shout Factory did they best they could.

For those who wondered, the gist of the scene is Mary is trying to see Rhoda off at the airport but can't get through security because she keeps setting off the metal detector - even after they search her purse! Very funny scene. Sad that it's missing on DVD.

Greg

[TVFactFan]

So the scene with Mary visting Phyllis was available in syndication but the scene with Mary in the first ep of Rhoda is not on DVD??


HUH????-LOL This DVD is a DISASTER

[Vahan]

So the scene with Mary visting Phyllis was available in syndication but the scene with Mary in the first ep of Rhoda is not on DVD??


HUH????-LOL This DVD is a DISASTER

No, that episode is the same as the syndicated version. That scene is also missing on the VHS release, too.

[TVFactFan]

No, that episode is the same as the syndicated version. That scene is also missing on the VHS release, too.


I was referring to Phyllis. I found it strange that one of the MTM spinoffs that was not popular had Mary's appearance in reruns on N@N but there is no Mary seen on the popular MTM spinoff, Rhoda, on the DVD

[Eric Paddon]

Shout should have tanked this project from the get-go.

[Chrisothebigc]

Mary Tyler Moore made four guest appearances on "Rhoda" in it's first season. Looking at the running times, the two best one's appear to be unedited: "Rhoda's Wedding" and "Along Comes Mary".

And just to remind you yet again, "Phyllis" was more popular in the ratings than either MTMS or "Rhoda", finishing as the # 6 show of the 1975-1976 season, garnering the Golden Globe for Leachman. So poular was the show, that it garnered a mention in the hit film "Network", as being one of the only shows to trump Peter Finch's tirades.

"Phyllis" ran twice a night on Nick for several months, aired on Sundays as well, and was on their line up for a year. Not bad for a show that was axed after two seasons. I'm here to tell you that there are plenty of fans who want "Phyllis" on dvd. This message board is one of the very best, but it ain't the only one out there.

Mary made one guest appearance on "Phyllis" in the first season, and a quite lengthy one in season two: "You're Not Getting Any Better, Just Older". Both ep's ate quite funny, especially the later.

I don't blame any of you for not buying the "Rhoda" set. It bugs the hell out of me, also. But I still want it, and I'm glad it is coming out, flaws and all.

[JMFabiano524]

Shout should have tanked this project from the get-go.

...and people would still have complained and called them tyrants like Fox for holding the show hostage, and how evil the DVD industry is for ignoring this show while so-and-so gets a set, etc. etc. Internet = full of unpleasable people.

(Though if they could do it better, I agree that giving it more time would have been worth it. Unless they rushed it out for the 35th anniversary.)

I am still mixed...I want it eventually just cause it's Rhoda. And the holdups with TMTMS should tell us what happens when no one buys a set...so I fear by not getting this, I'm telling people I want the show to be forgotten. And if Shout gave up, would we ever see the show again? No one will rerun the show it seems. Maybe Fox would do a DVD, if Rhoda was the one that got hit by the dart they seem to throw at the wall every other year to decide what MTM series to randomly release one season of and then forget.

The Paley Center gets a lot of its stuff from off-air masters. A lot of the things I saw had original commercials and whatnot. Was there any proof that the Rhoda premiere was the master tape and not something captured off of the network or network affiliates? Or that it was a recent print? (any sign of a Fox logo or Fox donation-ship?)

EDIT: Another MTM-related oddity that this reminds me of. Paley has the St. Elsewhere finale WITH the original end credit gag. Yet I don't think it's been seen since the NBC airing. Reruns plaster the normal credits over it, as did the VHS release.

THIS is what you should have seen. May not be for people who loved the MTM logo and Mimsie the cat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fce6tlwwjQo&feature=related

[Eric Paddon]

I will freely admit that my resentment toward Shout stems more from the fact that they spent money to do this kind of inferior product while still leaving other titles they started abandoned prior to completion and talking about how they lacked the funds to do those projects. IMO, money spent on this is not justifiable since it's an end product that leaves few people happy while those of us who wonder what happened to the stuff they started and didn't finish remain screwed.

[DallasFan]

Shout should have tanked this project from the get-go.

Yup, I agree. Especially after hearing Greg's comments about seeing missing scenes with good picture quality. Shout messed thie one up real bad.

[catlover79]

Yet another DVD company drops the ball. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[snowpeck]

The Rhoda ep at the Paley Center had black in the breaks, so it was from some sort of master. Heck, I would have been able to live with a direct copy of the museum's tape over what seems to have ended up on DVD. Wouldn't be any copyright issues since Fox owns the content... doesn't matter who's in possession of the tape.

Greg

[JMFabiano524]

Does anyone have info on when the Rhoda premiere in Paley was donated, and by whom?

[Eric Paddon]

Why? For trying to come out with SOMETHING given the circumstances? If they tanked the project, I'm sure we'd all ***** and moan. If you don't believe me, look at how they react to what's going on with TMTMS. Speaking of which, not to be pushy, but did anyone read what I said above in my last post?

Sorry, but that is not even a comparable situation, because with the track record of past releases from Fox on MTM, we have SEEN uncut, unedited shows and know that we're looking at the release of an end product in superior quality to the reruns we've seen in the past or any boot set we might be picking up. With this title, we are talking about something that is fundamentally no different than your average boot set given dressed up packaging and a higher price tag. And when this company has a rap sheet of sob stories about how they can't afford to continue releases of titles they choose to abandon and then I see them deciding to spend money on something of substandard quality, sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, in fact it makes me more ticked off that something like this got preferential treatment from Shout! over finishing "The Bill Cosby Show."

And I guess maybe there's some sarcasm in my tone to match yours, because I think the efforts to let this company off the hook for its gross incompetence is astonishing.

[JMFabiano524]

Sorry, but that is not even a comparable situation, because with the track record of past releases from Fox on MTM, we have SEEN uncut, unedited shows and know that we're looking at the release of an end product in superior quality to the reruns we've seen in the past or any boot set we might be picking up. With this title, we are talking about something that is fundamentally no different than your average boot set given dressed up packaging and a higher price tag. And when this company has a rap sheet of sob stories about how they can't afford to continue releases of titles they choose to abandon and then I see them deciding to spend money on something of substandard quality, sorry, that doesn't sit well with me, in fact it makes me more ticked off that something like this got preferential treatment from Shout! over finishing "The Bill Cosby Show."

And I guess maybe there's some sarcasm in my tone to match yours, because I think the efforts to let this company off the hook for its gross incompetence is astonishing.

Was it just about not being affordable? The TBCS situation, that is. Or did it just not sell enough copies? And was the first set released before the Economic Disaster struck?

Anyway......

Quality isn't the point. Though I am curious as to why this series is in bad shape while the other MTM series are in better condition.

The point was, if they did decide to delay or give up on the Rhoda project, I am sure there'd be fans who would be just as upset as they are over this, regardless of the situation. Just like how every delay of TMTMS by Fox seems to be inexcusable, no matter how realistic the reasons are (It bothers me too, but face it, reality says that a company isn't going to bank on a title that didn't sell enough copies, nor give them away cheap if they want a return)

And that reminds me...I now wonder...IF there are pristine masters out there, was Fox asking too much for them/Shout couldn't afford them, so they got second-hand copies instead? Just to get SOMETHING out on the 35th anniversary? Anything is possible in this economic situation. Or did Fox not even bother to go back and make new versions? Would that add to the cost to them and/or Shout? You see, not ALL the blame can fall on Shout's hands. There are a couple of possible factors working here.

I am sorry for being harsh at you all before. I know I shouldn't abuse my membership at any message board, and well, shouldn't be nasty to other people. I just WANTED to like this set, and I guess I am desperate to make any sense I could out of the situation, and/or look on the bright side. I mean, what else could I do to get my Rhoda fix? Hmmmm? Anybody? No? Dust. Anybody? No? Dust. (GET OFF OF MY COMPUTER, MARJORIE DAWES! ;-) ;-))

Also, I just tend to get affected by upsetting news a little more than the average person, and it makes me feel awful to even think about something I otherwise love. And it can be ANY such news. But I'm getting a bit personal there...


EDIT: Here is what my friend thinks, as he is going to NY (which has a Paley Center...it's still MT&R to me ;-)) and I told him about this in an IM:

Friend [11:56]: I think Fox/MTM ****** up
Friend [11:56]: I bet that the only masters which were of high enough quality and on digital were cut
Friend [11:56]: Remember, the old "conversion" issue
Friend [11:56]: Except that any old masters would be of insufficient quality for DVD releases anyway so they wouldn't convert them from analog.
Friend [11:56]: As opposed to GSN where it didn't matter b/c they were shot on tape anyways (NOTE: he means Game Show Network, which back in the day would not air several series because they "had all the episodes but didn't convert all of them;" most notably, the Barry-Enright show "Bullseye")

Friend [12:00]: They got stuff from a long time ago
Friend [12:00]: Again, the original 35mms exist

Friend [12:00]: Fox/MTM was obviously too lazy to go back and make brand new digital restored/remastered versions

Friend [12:01]: Usually uncut versions are international video masters from the late 90s done on DigiBeta/etc that's suficient for DVD usage

Friend [12:01]: Since they're of high quality 10-year-old video masters of TV shows can be utilized
Friend [12:01]: I THINK
Friend [12:01]: Most TV shows are not newly restored

Friend [12:03]: I am not interested in sitcoms so I don't REALLY care, I ASSUME CBS or MTM donated it in the late 80s

JMFabianoRPL [12:13]: So it wouldn't be so simple as to ask for Paley's copy?
Friend [12:13]: They don't do that anymore
Friend [12:13]: Sorry
Friend [12:14]: They stopped that long ago because of piracy (and ***** says because of Johnny Carson)
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: (Didn't GSN do that with the UCLA archive to get the one ABC PW?)
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: No I mean if Shout could have got it
Friend [12:14]: Again, it's not of sufficient quality I bet
Friend [12:14]: It may be faded, not to mention it's from an analog transfer
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: The person who saw it said otherwise.
Friend [12:14]: Well you've seen TV shows on DVD they have vibrant color, etc.
Friend [12:14]: it STILL may not be up to snuff

[Eric Paddon]

Yes, it is about not being affordable with them. They *have* restored elements for a S2 release of "The Bill Cosby Show" in place, and they in fact at one time announced a release but cancelled it more than two years ago. And in the much-ballyhooed "Shout Appreciation Thread" the excuse they came up with was that the costs involved in releasing that second season would in their minds cause them to incur a defecit overall based on how much they put into the project since they couldn't guarantee good sales for it. Well how in the world do you then guarantee good sales for a substandard product that a lot of people are now declaring that they will NOT purchase as a result of their finding out after-the-fact (which is a nice comment on Shout's duplicity in this matter given how their representative at this place once used the term "Complete episodes" to describe their end-product with *no* hints that anything would be edited) that it's edited? I call that a lousy way of running an operation. If this company can somehow find a budget to turn out a crap release that is nothing more than a well-dressed boot masquerading as something better, then they should find a budget to put out one lousy release of a title that only *needs* one more release to be finished on DVD.

[JMFabiano524]

Any thoughts on my other speculations or that of my friend? With all due respect, you seem to have passed all that by.

And I still wonder...were the BCShow plans nipped in the bud by the poor economy? A LOT of things have changed because of that in an INSTANT. Plans changed, companies died, etc. etc. (and as I speculated, that might also be a factor as to why Rhoda isn't all it could be as well)

[Eric Paddon]

The cancelled Cosby release was in the summer of 2006 or 07 which predates the nation's economic woes.

[JMFabiano524]

The cancelled Cosby release was in the summer of 2006 or 07 which predates the nation's economic woes.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. Well you got me on that one.

[TVFactFan]

As I former TV collector of Original Network programmng, I never seen a Collector with CBS eps of Rhoda on his list. So maybe UNCUT copies are hard to get

[JulieSomoski]

This is definitely a disaster on my list. My most anticipated release of the year so far, and I probably won't be buying it now. What a shame. This definitely takes Shout down a few notches in my mind. If they were going to put out a set with terrible video and cut episodes, why even put it out at all?

I feel they could have done a better job securing the unedited episodes. I would have even taken even worse video for the unedited prints, and I'm sure many feel the same way. This is the one and only season 1 release of Rhoda, and having so many memorable scenes edited out (such as the one with Mary in the pilot) is just not worth my $30+ I'd be paying.

[Vahan]

Skees53, what about "Lady of Spain"? That was the original featured song used in the wedding episode. Is it still there, or has it been replaced with a generic tune, like it was on VHS and in syndication.

[TVFactFan]

This is definitely a disaster on my list. My most anticipated release of the year so far, and I probably won't be buying it now. What a shame. This definitely takes Shout down a few notches in my mind. If they were going to put out a set with terrible video and cut episodes, why even put it out at all?

I feel they could have done a better job securing the unedited episodes. I would have even taken even worse video for the unedited prints, and I'm sure many feel the same way. This is the one and only season 1 release of Rhoda, and having so many memorable scenes edited out (such as the one with Mary in the pilot) is just not worth my $30+ I'd be paying.


Where did you see the scene with Mary in the pilot? Syndication?

[skees53]

Skees53, what about "Lady of Spain"? That was the original featured song used in the wedding episode. Is it still there, or has it been replaced with a generic tune, like it was on VHS and in syndication.

I just checked, and it turns out that they did NOT remove the song. It is left intact.

[JulieSomoski]

Where did you see the scene with Mary in the pilot? Syndication?

I've never seen it before, which is just the point. It's a shame that we'll never be able to see that classic scene on DVD. Shout! really screwed this release up badly.

[TVFactFan]

I've never seen it before, which is just the point. It's a shame that we'll never be able to see that classic scene on DVD. Shout! really screwed this release up badly.


Just Read on TV.com that Mary's appeareances in the Opening Teaser and Closing Tag of the first episode was never seen in syndication.

That sucks

[JulieSomoski]

Just Read on TV.com that Mary's appeareances in the Opening Teaser and Closing Tag of the first episode was never seen in syndication.

That sucks

Of all scenes from the pilot, I wonder why those 2 were the ones they decided to cut. It definitely does suck, since we'll never get to see them, EVER.

[JMFabiano524]

Wow, won't it be funny when we all call Fox the heroes when they put out good-looking editions of the remaining MTMs? (I also think the delay IS to rethink the complete series strategy on top of that) While the fan favorite Shout is burying itself apparently with this?

Goodbye! This am not Bizarro World! :-) :-)

Seriously, though, I maintain we need to think about how much is Shout and how much isn't. Since my posts keep seeming to get passed over, to repeat:

And that reminds me...I now wonder...IF there are pristine masters out there, was Fox asking too much for them/Shout couldn't afford them, so they got second-hand copies instead? Just to get SOMETHING out on the 35th anniversary? Anything is possible in this economic situation. Or did Fox not even bother to go back and make new versions? Would that add to the cost to them and/or Shout? You see, not ALL the blame can fall on Shout's hands. There are a couple of possible factors working here.

I am sorry for being harsh at you all before. I know I shouldn't abuse my membership at any message board, and well, shouldn't be nasty to other people. I just WANTED to like this set, and I guess I am desperate to make any sense I could out of the situation, and/or look on the bright side. I mean, what else could I do to get my Rhoda fix? Hmmmm? Anybody? No? Dust. Anybody? No? Dust. (GET OFF OF MY COMPUTER, MARJORIE DAWES! ;-) ;-))

Also, I just tend to get affected by upsetting news a little more than the average person, and it makes me feel awful to even think about something I otherwise love. And it can be ANY such news. But I'm getting a bit personal there...


EDIT: Here is what my friend thinks, as he is going to NY (which has a Paley Center...it's still MT&R to me ;-)) and I told him about this in an IM:

Friend [11:56]: I think Fox/MTM ****** up
Friend [11:56]: I bet that the only masters which were of high enough quality and on digital were cut
Friend [11:56]: Remember, the old "conversion" issue
Friend [11:56]: Except that any old masters would be of insufficient quality for DVD releases anyway so they wouldn't convert them from analog.
Friend [11:56]: As opposed to GSN where it didn't matter b/c they were shot on tape anyways (NOTE: he means Game Show Network, which back in the day would not air several series because they "had all the episodes but didn't convert all of them;" most notably, the Barry-Enright show "Bullseye")

Friend [12:00]: They got stuff from a long time ago
Friend [12:00]: Again, the original 35mms exist

Friend [12:00]: Fox/MTM was obviously too lazy to go back and make brand new digital restored/remastered versions

Friend [12:01]: Usually uncut versions are international video masters from the late 90s done on DigiBeta/etc that's suficient for DVD usage

Friend [12:01]: Since they're of high quality 10-year-old video masters of TV shows can be utilized
Friend [12:01]: I THINK
Friend [12:01]: Most TV shows are not newly restored

Friend [12:03]: I am not interested in sitcoms so I don't REALLY care, I ASSUME CBS or MTM donated it in the late 80s

JMFabianoRPL [12:13]: So it wouldn't be so simple as to ask for Paley's copy?
Friend [12:13]: They don't do that anymore
Friend [12:13]: Sorry
Friend [12:14]: They stopped that long ago because of piracy (and ***** says because of Johnny Carson)
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: (Didn't GSN do that with the UCLA archive to get the one ABC PW?)
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: No I mean if Shout could have got it
Friend [12:14]: Again, it's not of sufficient quality I bet
Friend [12:14]: It may be faded, not to mention it's from an analog transfer
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: The person who saw it said otherwise.
Friend [12:14]: Well you've seen TV shows on DVD they have vibrant color, etc.
Friend [12:14]: it STILL may not be up to snuff

[TVFactFan]

Wow, won't it be funny when we all call Fox the heroes when they put out good-looking editions of the remaining MTMs? (I also think the delay IS to rethink the complete series strategy on top of that) While the fan favorite Shout is burying itself apparently with this?

Goodbye! This am not Bizarro World! :-) :-)

Seriously, though, I maintain we need to think about how much is Shout and how much isn't. Since my posts keep seeming to get passed over, to repeat:

And that reminds me...I now wonder...IF there are pristine masters out there, was Fox asking too much for them/Shout couldn't afford them, so they got second-hand copies instead? Just to get SOMETHING out on the 35th anniversary? Anything is possible in this economic situation. Or did Fox not even bother to go back and make new versions? Would that add to the cost to them and/or Shout? You see, not ALL the blame can fall on Shout's hands. There are a couple of possible factors working here.

I am sorry for being harsh at you all before. I know I shouldn't abuse my membership at any message board, and well, shouldn't be nasty to other people. I just WANTED to like this set, and I guess I am desperate to make any sense I could out of the situation, and/or look on the bright side. I mean, what else could I do to get my Rhoda fix? Hmmmm? Anybody? No? Dust. Anybody? No? Dust. (GET OFF OF MY COMPUTER, MARJORIE DAWES! ;-) ;-))

Also, I just tend to get affected by upsetting news a little more than the average person, and it makes me feel awful to even think about something I otherwise love. And it can be ANY such news. But I'm getting a bit personal there...


EDIT: Here is what my friend thinks, as he is going to NY (which has a Paley Center...it's still MT&R to me ;-)) and I told him about this in an IM:

Friend [11:56]: I think Fox/MTM ****** up
Friend [11:56]: I bet that the only masters which were of high enough quality and on digital were cut
Friend [11:56]: Remember, the old "conversion" issue
Friend [11:56]: Except that any old masters would be of insufficient quality for DVD releases anyway so they wouldn't convert them from analog.
Friend [11:56]: As opposed to GSN where it didn't matter b/c they were shot on tape anyways (NOTE: he means Game Show Network, which back in the day would not air several series because they "had all the episodes but didn't convert all of them;" most notably, the Barry-Enright show "Bullseye")

Friend [12:00]: They got stuff from a long time ago
Friend [12:00]: Again, the original 35mms exist

Friend [12:00]: Fox/MTM was obviously too lazy to go back and make brand new digital restored/remastered versions

Friend [12:01]: Usually uncut versions are international video masters from the late 90s done on DigiBeta/etc that's suficient for DVD usage

Friend [12:01]: Since they're of high quality 10-year-old video masters of TV shows can be utilized
Friend [12:01]: I THINK
Friend [12:01]: Most TV shows are not newly restored

Friend [12:03]: I am not interested in sitcoms so I don't REALLY care, I ASSUME CBS or MTM donated it in the late 80s

JMFabianoRPL [12:13]: So it wouldn't be so simple as to ask for Paley's copy?
Friend [12:13]: They don't do that anymore
Friend [12:13]: Sorry
Friend [12:14]: They stopped that long ago because of piracy (and ***** says because of Johnny Carson)
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: (Didn't GSN do that with the UCLA archive to get the one ABC PW?)
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: No I mean if Shout could have got it
Friend [12:14]: Again, it's not of sufficient quality I bet
Friend [12:14]: It may be faded, not to mention it's from an analog transfer
JMFabianoRPL [12:14]: The person who saw it said otherwise.
Friend [12:14]: Well you've seen TV shows on DVD they have vibrant color, etc.
Friend [12:14]: it STILL may not be up to snuff



Since you haven't got the hint I think I need to tell you that no one on here is interested in a private conversation between you and your friend so will you please stop posting the interaction? Thank You

[JMFabiano524]

OK, I am wrong for posting it a WHOPPING, ASTOUNDING....two times (this included). Whatever.

Conversation or not, I was trying to point out the other factors to consider. It can be a little bit Shout, a little bit Fox, and maybe some other stuff. It's not good to generalize the blame when there might be more than meets the eye.

[TVFactFan]

OK, I am wrong for posting it a WHOPPING, ASTOUNDING....two times (this included). Whatever.

Conversation or not, I was trying to point out the other factors to consider. It can be a little bit Shout, a little bit Fox, and maybe some other stuff. It's not good to generalize the blame when there might be more than meets the eye.


Ok well I think it's better if you just post what your friend said instead of posting the interaction.

Like, "i was talking to my friend and he basically said that...........


See what I mean?

And that will allow someone to respond back to you because it won't be a posted interaction but instead your post.

[JMFabiano524]

Ok well I think it's better if you just post what your friend said instead of posting the interaction.

Like, "i was talking to my friend and he basically said that...........


See what I mean?

And that will allow someone to respond back to you because it won't be a posted interaction but instead your post.

OK, sorry. Copy-and-paste does the work of idle hands. Or something.

Basically, this alternate opinion says that Paley probably got the copy a long time ago and that it may not necessarily be convertible if it's analog (like the GSN/Bullseye issue). Either that or Fox/MTM was too lazy to go back and make brand new digital restored/remastered versions.

EDIT: And sorry again for being so on-and-off hyperactive about this. As much as I am trying to reason away things, I am as disappointed as you are. For a time it looked good for fans of the MTM library, and now this and the difficulties with the MTMS DVDs (I can only hope I am right and they are reconsidering making ONLY the complete series available, among other things). Sometimes I think no TV library has been more mistreated than the MTM Enterprises one...

...


...


...then I remember Paramount Television, and whatever else is now under CBS/Paramount's watch ;-)

[snowpeck]

I forgot all about that tag scene until you mentioned it. I know it involved Rhoda making a phone call to Mary telling her she'd met someone and was staying in New York. I don't remember much else though.


Greg

[Chrisothebigc]

JM,

SportsGuy doesn't speak for every one else. I thought your post of the conversation was interesting, and informative. I just haven't got a clue as how to respond.

[Chrisothebigc]

Of all scenes from the pilot, I wonder why those 2 were the ones they decided to cut. It definitely does suck, since we'll never get to see them, EVER.

It is amazing to me that, when I have the good fortune to see unedited episodes of shows, that often some of the funniest lines are cut. Not to mention scenes that would really inetrest fans of the particular show.

I wouldn't lose hope that the missing scenes will never be made available. Shout! and/or Fox are not the be-all/end-all when it comes to shows that they release or own. We just can't see them anytime soon, and that's a drag!

My Mom and I watched "Rhoda" (and "Phyllis"), but I haven't the slightest memory of the Mary scenes from the "Rhoda" pilot. They sound like fun.