Valerie

[Sophie Treadmill]

What a great addition to the cast! I thought she was a perfect vampy soap gal. Actually, there was more to her than that, and I guess that's what I really liked about her. I never understood Kelly's motivation to instantly hate Val. Sure, as time progressed, there were reasons, but initially, it just didn't seem based on anything.

As BuffyBoy pointed out in the "I Hate Kelly" thread, by this time the show was getting more soapy and I think Tiffani-Amber Theissen (or whatever her name is now, please correct me) did a great job with her. I thought Val shook up things and I really enjoyed it.

I have to admit though, I didn't keep watching past the 4th season. So, I've missed out on a lot of Val stuff, but her first season or so, was great, from what I've seen.


I'd love to hear what everyone else has to say, especially those that have watched more of the Val years than I did.

[Stuck In The '70's]

Val was a good addition...one of the few good additions the show made during the college years. My favorite shows have always been the HS years though. I stopped watching after Dylan left the show.

[Ireneparalegal]

Valerie was a very complex character. It was different than any of the characters that had been presented to us before.

I stated my opinion as to why I believe Kelly hated her off the bat. I feel she had what it is I have and I am sure lots of women have, it is called "intuition". You get this feeling abt a certain female that you know is trouble, going to be a drama queen, basically, you just can't trust her.

I had a real-life situation where I instantly disliked a female friend of my boyfriend. He didn't get why I loathed her, etc. I would tell him but eventuallly he had to see for himself as she proved what a real b*tch she really was and what her true "self" was. He couldn't see her for what she was. I smelled it from a mile away.

Also, I guess the writers wanted the audience to get the "hint" from Kelly that Val was going to be a person that was not to be trusted; so they had her be the way she was towards Val.

[Buffyboy323]

First off, I think Valerie was not only the best addition to 90210, but one of the best additions to any show, ever!....IMO, if she didn't join the cast, when Brenda left, it was only a matter of time before the show would have went under. I think the situation was very similar to Heather Locklear joining Melrose Place.

I missed Brenda dearly, but not for long. Once Val got there, I was so interested in her, that I just shrugged when people would say they wanted Brenda back, LOL.

Was she coniving? Yeah. Was she a backstabber? Sure. Could she be trusted? Not really. Was she a bitch? Yep. Should she have done drugs? No....But I liked the character so much, that I couldn't well, NOT like her (despite all of these things). Like Sophie said, she shook things up. That's what they needed on the show, even before Brenda left.

Her fights with Kelly were sometimes rediculous. Could Kelly have been nicer? Yeah, but I guess she saw what Val was about, probably from the start, and didn't like her one bit....She was with almost every guy on the show, at one point or another. Steve, Dylan, David, Ray, Colin, Noah, Kenny (the married man!), among others. And let`s not forget she tried to get with Brandon too!....Her sleeping around habbits led to her HIV scare, which IMO was one of her best storylines.

Her departure from the series was one of the best they did. She wasn't just written out in 1 or 2 episodes. It took a little time...It was revealed that her father didn't commit suicide, but that Valerie killed him, for all his abuse as a child (she was molested, etc)....Her mother finds out, and wants to turn her in (even though it was self defense), but they eventually talk it over and Val moves back to Buffalo, to rebuild her relationship with her mom.....These episodes also have her having 1 more spat with Kelly, which is when she realizes she's really doesn't fit in BH, no matter how much she tries. There's a good scene with these 2, where they finally call a truce, after 5 years.....Her last episode was also when Gina joined the cast, and Dylan came back. They needed 2 people to replace her....Hhhhmmm.....She returned for Donna and David`s wedding (the series finale), getting along with everyone.

[Buffyboy323]

I feel she had what it is I have and I am sure lots of women have, it is called "intuition". You get this feeling abt a certain female that you know is trouble, going to be a drama queen, basically, you just can't trust her.

I had a real-life situation where I instantly disliked a female friend of my boyfriend. He didn't get why I loathed her, etc. I would tell him but eventuallly he had to see for himself as she proved what a real b*tch she really was and what her true "self" was. He couldn't see her for what she was. I smelled it from a mile away.
I wrote practically the same thing! LOL

I didn't even think about the writers using Kelly to forshadow the trouble that Valerie would become, but I can see it now. That's very good Irene!

[Sophie Treadmill]

First off, I think Valerie was not only the best addition to 90210, but one of the best additions to any show, ever!....IMO, if she didn't join the cast, when Brenda left, it was only a matter of time before the show would have went under. I think the situation was very similar to Heather Locklear joining Melrose Place.
*Snip*
Her departure from the series was one of the best they did. She wasn't just written out in 1 or 2 episodes. It took a little time...It was revealed that her father didn't commit suicide, but that Valerie killed him, for all his abuse as a child (she was molested, etc)....Her mother finds out, and wants to turn her in (even though it was self defense), but they eventually talk it over and Val moves back to Buffalo, to rebuild her relationship with her mom.....These episodes also have her having 1 more spat with Kelly, which is when she realizes she's really doesn't fit in BH, no matter how much she tries. There's a good scene with these 2, where they finally call a truce, after 5 years.....Her last episode was also when Gina joined the cast, and Dylan came back. They needed 2 people to replace her....Hhhhmmm.....She returned for Donna and David`s wedding (the series finale), getting along with everyone.

I think the Locklear analogy is perfect!

I really need to get hip to the TiVo/DVR thing after reading what happens to Valerie. I lost interest in the show the more soapy it became, but I always liked Val. I may have to tune in to some of the latter seasons after all.

I also agree with Ireneparalegal that the writers just wanted us to get a "hint" from Kelly about Val. Sometimes when writers do this it's more like an anvil, which I hate because it's poor writing (IMO), but I don't think it was so much of an anvil in this case.

One problem I had with the pot smoking episode was with character continuity re Kelly. She pretty much isolated Val and didn't want anyone to have anything to do with her. If Kelly thought she had a drug problem, why wouldn't she try to help her? It would have been in keeping with her character, after all. She wasn't known to turn her back on those with drug problems. But, I guess it's different when it's someone she doesn't like? That's a question, no sarcasm intended, although it probably reads that way.

After reading your posts I want to see more Val eps! :)

Oh, and shallow observation here (not that there's anything wrong with that) but I always thought Tiffani-Amber Theissen was gorgeous. Just a total knockout.

[Ireneparalegal]

BuffyBoy and Sophie, I like your views on this subject of Valerie. Very insightful.

Sophie, I agree, I hate when the writers feel they need to "let us beware" of what is coming up, a foreshadowing. Like we can't figure that out as the show progresses! Geez. That is what makes soaps so fun to watch, you see these characters and get surprised at what occurs and what they say and do.

[Sophie Treadmill]

I know just what you mean. There's foreshadowing, which I don't mind, I think it's a valid technique. But, then there's just plain lazy writing, which relies on "anvils" instead of foreshadowing which I don't care for, because, as you said, it ruins everything for the audience, not to mention how it insults one's intelligence.

[Ireneparalegal]

I know just what you mean. There's foreshadowing, which I don't mind, I think it's a valid technique. But, then there's just plain lazy writing, which relies on "anvils" instead of foreshadowing which I don't care for, because, as you said, it ruins everything for the audience, not to mention how it insults one's intelligence.
Thank you that's what I was trying to say, the "insulting of one's intelligience". This was a series where there was plenty of time for us to figure out on our own. Just like in real life, we may not have a foreshadowing of how a person may turn out, so why give us hints on a soap? I just want to scream to the writers..."Let us figure that out. Let us see this character develop without any hints PLEASE!"

[Sophie Treadmill]

I don't mind hints, it's all in the quality of the writing, IMO. Foreshadowing? Yes. Anvils? No, it's lazy and insulting, not to repeat myself. In real life we may get hints, sometimes it's called intuition, just as you astutely pointed out earlier.

This is just my opinion, but a show doesn't necessarily have to be realistic, to be good. The two aren't synonymous as far as I'm concerned. It's more about how well-written it is. Same goes for acting and directing.

Soaps are fun primarily because they're not realistic. It would suck if everything on TV and in the movies was totally realistic, I get enough of that in real life. A little escapism is good too.;)

*Disclaimer: The above doesn't mean I don't reserve the right to gripe in the future about some show because it departs from reality too much. :)

"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself"---Walt Whitman.

I must be in a loopy mood today. How the heck I went from posting about 90210 to a Walt Whitman quote is beyond me. :crazy:

[Ireneparalegal]

I don't mind hints, it's all in the quality of the writing, IMO. Foreshadowing? Yes. Anvils? No, it's lazy and insulting, not to repeat myself. In real life we may get hints, sometimes it's called intuition, just as you astutely pointed out earlier.

This is just my opinion, but a show doesn't necessarily have to be realistic, to be good. The two aren't synonymous as far as I'm concerned. It's more about how well-written it is. Same goes for acting and directing.

Soaps are fun primarily because they're not realistic. It would suck if everything on TV and in the movies was totally realistic, I get enough of that in real life. A little escapism is good too.;)

*Disclaimer: The above doesn't mean I don't reserve the right to gripe in the future about some show because it departs from reality too much. :)
"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself"---Walt Whitman.

I must be in a loopy mood today. How the heck I went from posting about 90210 to a Walt Whitman quote is beyond me. :crazy:
You're killling me! And I love it! :cheers: :lol: :lol: I know what you mean!

[Sophie Treadmill]

I love your avatar, by the way. I remember that TV Guide cover! Takes me back. I take it you're a Roseanne fan? I am too, I just loved that show. It was (still is) rare for a sitcom family to not be comfortably middle-class. I appreciated that about her show.

[Buffyboy323]

I think the Locklear analogy is perfect!

I really need to get hip to the TiVo/DVR thing after reading what happens to Valerie. I lost interest in the show the more soapy it became, but I always liked Val. I may have to tune in to some of the latter seasons after all.

I also agree with Ireneparalegal that the writers just wanted us to get a "hint" from Kelly about Val. Sometimes when writers do this it's more like an anvil, which I hate because it's poor writing (IMO), but I don't think it was so much of an anvil in this case.

One problem I had with the pot smoking episode was with character continuity re Kelly. She pretty much isolated Val and didn't want anyone to have anything to do with her. If Kelly thought she had a drug problem, why wouldn't she try to help her? It would have been in keeping with her character, after all. She wasn't known to turn her back on those with drug problems. But, I guess it's different when it's someone she doesn't like? That's a question, no sarcasm intended, although it probably reads that way.

After reading your posts I want to see more Val eps! :)

Oh, and shallow observation here (not that there's anything wrong with that) but I always thought Tiffani-Amber Theissen was gorgeous. Just a total knockout.

LMAO!!!....Well you can stay old school with a VCR, and just set it up to record the show from SoapNet in the afternoons.... I watch them every now and then. They showed the series finale then the pilot episode about a month ago, so they should be airing the 2nd season now.....When they get up to them, you really should watch the Valerie years. That's when the show was at it`s best, IMO (not only because of her, but the show itself. Seasons 3 through 7 are my favorites).

Again, I see your point about Kelly. After all, remember her coke problem?

And your last sentence wasn't that shallow at all....I was going to post the same thing! Hahaha!....Tiffani is one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen in my life (especially during her time on 90210). And she was the all time hottest 90210 cast member, IMO.

[Buffyboy323]

BuffyBoy and Sophie, I like your views on this subject of Valerie. Very insightful.

Sophie, I agree, I hate when the writers feel they need to "let us beware" of what is coming up, a foreshadowing. Like we can't figure that out as the show progresses! Geez. That is what makes soaps so fun to watch, you see these characters and get surprised at what occurs and what they say and do.

I like your views here too Irene...Well I normally agree with most of what you say anyway, but especially here....You know what I mean! LOL

And I like what you guys are saying about making the audience feel dumb, AS WELL as saying there's ways to show forshadowing in an intelligent manner. In the case of Kelly/Valerie, I think it was well done.

[Ireneparalegal]

I love your avatar, by the way. I remember that TV Guide cover! Takes me back. I take it you're a Roseanne fan? I am too, I just loved that show. It was (still is) rare for a sitcom family to not be comfortably middle-class. I appreciated that about her show.
Thank you. I am a huge Roseanne fan. Hope to see you on the Roseanne boards as well. :wave:

[Buffyboy323]

I love your avatar, by the way. I remember that TV Guide cover! Takes me back. I take it you're a Roseanne fan? I am too, I just loved that show. It was (still is) rare for a sitcom family to not be comfortably middle-class. I appreciated that about her show.
To me, Roseanne is the best sitcom ever (along with All In The Family). There's never been anything like it. I love it. Irene and I are always on the Roseanne board. There's a lot of other die hard fans there too. It gets crazy there sometimes, but it`s fun. Just join right in!

[Sophie Treadmill]

Thank you for the warm welcome, both of you! :wave:

I too think Roseanne was one of the best sitcoms, right up there with All in the Family. I am going to have to check out that board too. Sounds like fun, but I can see how it might get a bit contentious at times. I understand that some people just see Roseanne as a loud shrew, while others appreciate her for other things. Add socioeconomic concerns to the mix, and well, you've got the recipe for a few good rows here and there!

Oh, and about Kelly's coke problem...yeah, that's another one where it felt contrived. I guess I'd have preferred it if her descent into drugs had lasted longer than three eps. Especially since I think Jennie Garth could've done a great job with it. She had moments on the show (telling us about her first time, for example) that showcased her as a better actress than I'd realized.

When she snorted with her Dad's rolled up check? Cheesy brilliance! I loved that. If it's gonna be cheesy, it might as well go all the way!

[Buffyboy323]

Thank you for the warm welcome, both of you! :wave:

I too think Roseanne was one of the best sitcoms, right up there with All in the Family. I am going to have to check out that board too. Sounds like fun, but I can see how it might get a bit contentious at times. I understand that some people just see Roseanne as a loud shrew, while others appreciate her for other things. Add socioeconomic concerns to the mix, and well, you've got the recipe for a few good rows here and there!

Oh, and about Kelly's coke problem...yeah, that's another one where it felt contrived. I guess I'd have preferred it if her descent into drugs had lasted longer than three eps. Especially since I think Jennie Garth could've done a great job with it. She had moments on the show (telling us about her first time, for example) that showcased her as a better actress than I'd realized.

When she snorted with her Dad's rolled up check? Cheesy brilliance! I loved that. If it's gonna be cheesy, it might as well go all the way!

LMAO! Well 90210 and cheesy go together...especially the early years.

Your welcome for the welcome. I hope you enjoy your stay here at SO. You seem like a nice person, and a great tv fan. You actually have things to say, which is awesome. Rock on!

[Sophie Treadmill]

Aw shucks, *looks down, blushes, and kicks pebbles* Thanks!

I am really enjoying reading your observations too! I think it's fun to delve into these things. I also love movies and plays (my username is a take on a playwright's name) and love to delve into them as well. I enjoy discussing books/movies/tv, etc. with people (like you) that really like to get into the conversation.

[Buffyboy323]

Aw shucks, *looks down, blushes, and kicks pebbles* Thanks!

I am really enjoying reading your observations too! I think it's fun to delve into these things. I also love movies and plays (my username is a take on a playwright's name) and love to delve into them as well. I enjoy discussing books/movies/tv, etc. with people (like you) that really like to get into the conversation.

LOL!!!....Well, long/in debt conversations are great, as long as we keep them interesting. We've all done a good job at that, especially since we've given the 90210 board new life. Let`s keep it up!

I never would have guessed that's where your username comes from....You learn new things every day! Ha!

[Sophie Treadmill]

Yep, playwright Sophie Treadwell is one of my favorites. She was an American playwright and journalist in the early 20th century. Machinal (1928) is her best-known/most frequently produced work; it's a great play, I highly recommend it.

I'm enjoying this board too. I haven't found very many good boards for this show, so I was glad I found this one. Hopefully we pull others into this board as well! :)

[Buffyboy323]

Yep, playwright Sophie Treadwell is one of my favorites. She was an American playwright and journalist in the early 20th century. Machinal (1928) is her best-known/most frequently produced work; it's a great play, I highly recommend it.

I'm enjoying this board too. I haven't found very many good boards for this show, so I was glad I found this one. Hopefully we pull others into this board as well! :)
I may have to check her out someday.

I hope so too. There's a lot more great shows to discuss here, but nobody does. The drama section is practically dead. I hope things change soon....Let`s start a revolution!

[Sophie Treadmill]

Viva la revolucion!

[BeatleMoe]

I think it would have been nice to see Brenda and Valerie in the same episode. Anybody notice that in the episode before Brenda leaves that Jim mentions to Brenda's stage manager that he and Cindy's best friends were from Buffalo?

[Sophie Treadmill]

I'd love to have seen those two play off of each other! I think they were the best actors on the show. The possiblilities are endless,especially since Kelly and Brenda's friendship had problems. I can see Brenda and Val teaming up and then Brenda going back and forth between the two groups.

While there were times I think Brenda would've supported and been on Val's side, there were other times, when I don't think she would've. Ex: When Val went after Ray-my-momma-could-only-afford-one-t-Pruit. I think she would've backed Donna up on that one. And, since I think Brenda is savvy, she'd probably have been the one to find out about their charade before anyone else.

Good call, BeatleMoe!

[Buffyboy323]

I think it would have been nice to see Brenda and Valerie in the same episode. Anybody notice that in the episode before Brenda leaves that Jim mentions to Brenda's stage manager that he and Cindy's best friends were from Buffalo?
Yeah, LOL....They might have been talking about Valerie`s parents, since the Walsh family knew them years before they moved to Beverly Hills.

[Ireneparalegal]

To me, Roseanne is the best sitcom ever (along with All In The Family). There's never been anything like it. I love it. Irene and I are always on the Roseanne board. There's a lot of other die hard fans there too. It gets crazy there sometimes, but it`s fun. Just join right in!
ROSEANNE IS THE BOMB!!!!! It changed the world of sitcoms as we see it. No one did it before and it hasn't been done since...at least in a good way. Roseanne did for television what Lucille Ball did for it. They both changed the way for women in sitcoms, the way we see sitcoms, etc.

I love the Roseanne board. Yes, I can get a little aggressive in my defending Bev (Roseanne's mom) but it's because we saw later on in the show how Bev is an alcoholic, was in an emotionally abusive relationship, her husband was cheating on her, etc. so it is obvious why she behaves the way she did, but it was sad how her own daughters treated her so shabbily. Anyhoo, that is a Roseanne topic for the Roseanne board.

Come on over there and bring some of your wisdom there and enjoy!!!!! Thanx for the great threads and posts you have brought here Sophie. Nice to meet you and hope your stay here is a long one. :D :wave:

[Buffyboy323]

I'd love to have seen those two play off of each other! I think they were the best actors on the show. The possiblilities are endless,especially since Kelly and Brenda's friendship had problems. I can see Brenda and Val teaming up and then Brenda going back and forth between the two groups.

While there were times I think Brenda would've supported and been on Val's side, there were other times, when I don't think she would've. Ex: When Val went after Ray-my-momma-could-only-afford-one-t-Pruit. I think she would've backed Donna up on that one. And, since I think Brenda is savvy, she'd probably have been the one to find out about their charade before anyone else.

Good call, BeatleMoe!

I agree, good call BeatleMoe! It would have been interesting to see those 2 in some of the same episodes.....Maybe Brenda could've started hanging out with Valerie (since they were childhood friends), and Val started to rub off on Brenda. Brenda would become even bitchier than she already was.....Leading to more problems between Kelly and Brenda, and Kelly and Valerie.

[Buffyboy323]

Viva la revolucion!

Hahaha!

[Sophie Treadmill]

I agree, good call BeatleMoe! It would have been interesting to see those 2 in some of the same episodes.....Maybe Brenda could've started hanging out with Valerie (since they were childhood friends), and Val started to rub off on Brenda. Brenda would become even bitchier than she already was.....Leading to more problems between Kelly and Brenda, and Kelly and Valerie.

I love that idea! It just would've been a great circlejerk that could've gone on for years. Too bad Doherty had to be so "difficult" as they say.

[Sophie Treadmill]

ROSEANNE IS THE BOMB!!!!! It changed the world of sitcoms as we see it. No one did it before and it hasn't been done since...at least in a good way. Roseanne did for television what Lucille Ball did for it. They both changed the way for women in sitcoms, the way we see sitcoms, etc.

I love the Roseanne board. Yes, I can get a little aggressive in my defending Bev (Roseanne's mom) but it's because we saw later on in the show how Bev is an alcoholic, was in an emotionally abusive relationship, her husband was cheating on her, etc. so it is obvious why she behaves the way she did, but it was sad how her own daughters treated her so shabbily. Anyhoo, that is a Roseanne topic for the Roseanne board.

Come on over there and bring some of your wisdom there and enjoy!!!!! Thanx for the great threads and posts you have brought here Sophie. Nice to meet you and hope your stay here is a long one. :D :wave:

Thanks! It's nice to meet you too! I'm really enjoying it here because of you guys and I hope to be here a nice, long time too. It seems like a really friendly community here and that's just the way I like it!

[BeatleMoe]

I believe that Brenda should have stayed during season 5 as well as Valerie entering the picture. There would be multiple triangles here: Brandon-Dylan-Kelly, Brenda-Valerie-Dylan, heck even the Brenda-Kelly-Dylan could have been a new challenge with Kelly dating Brandon to add to the confusion. It would have been even more interesting to see Brenda handle Dylan's marriage to Toni Marchette. All we got in that episode from Brenda was the good luck card. Too many possiblities. I think Shannen should have stayed around a little longer. I think season four was her best year. But, I loved Valerie too.