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LooksLikeCRicci
06-22-2007, 11:30 PM
I'm aware this question may seem a bit inappropriate, but I still have to ask:

Does anyone else think that Annette may have possibly had a romantic relationship with her co-worker "Dave?"

Babydollz24
06-23-2007, 12:21 AM
I thought the same thing when i saw this segment

Kane
06-23-2007, 11:59 AM
That never crossed my mind. But even if she was romantically involved with "Dave", UM probably had the good sense not to bring up that subject on the segment. Doing so might have made some viewers feel less sympathic about Annette; perhaps they would have become convinced that her murder was her own fault, instead of the fault of her abusive husband Jim.

ididn'tdoit
06-23-2007, 12:07 PM
Well if she did, I don't see any reason why she couldn't have left him right away, also when Jim killed her, they weren't living together anyway so I wouldn't call that an affair...

HyeTev
06-25-2007, 09:56 AM
Doing so might have made some viewers feel less sympathic about Annette; perhaps they would have become convinced that her murder was her own fault, instead of the fault of her abusive husband Jim.

Ah yes, blame the victim. Suuuure. :crazy:

Jim Burnside deserves much worse than 'being cheated on' in my book.

LooksLikeCRicci
06-25-2007, 04:03 PM
I understand what Kane is saying. Despite the fact that Jim Burnside was obviously a creep, there are probably some people who would have had MAJOR issues with Annette being romantically involved with a co-worker before her divorce was final...hence UM's editorial decision to leave it out, if it had happened.

I don't think Kane was trying to blame the victim at all. I think he was just trying to point out that other people may not share the same mindsets that we do. Those people are also probably not aware that the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship is WHEN SHE LEAVES. In my opinion, it didn't matter if Annette was seeing anyone else. She didn't want to be with Jim Burnside, which was reason enough for him to want to kill her.

Also... another ironic footnote. Perhaps I noticed this just because I've been extensively trained in domestic violence issues... but did anyone else notice that in this particular segment, Stack refers to "domestic violence" as "wife beating?" I did a double take and then started laughing! It's so strange to hear the un-policitally correct version... :)

HyeTev
06-25-2007, 05:02 PM
I don't think Kane was trying to blame the victim at all. I think he was just trying to point out that other people may not share the same mindsets that we do.

I understand that Kane himself wasn't blaming the victim in this case and I see his point about others not seeing it in the same way. However, I still believe that it is wrong to blame the victim regardless of the situation. What Annette and Jim had could never be classified as a 'marriage' by any stretch of the imagination so I personally did not see her 'romance' with Dave - assuming that there actually WAS one - as 'cheating'. Just my opinion. :)

Jim murdered her and he and only he can bear that responsibility. He was the one with the 'issues' with his temper, physical violence, and stalking. Annette cannot be blamed for any of it.


Perhaps I noticed this just because I've been extensively trained in domestic violence issues... but did anyone else notice that in this particular segment, Stack refers to "domestic violence" as "wife beating?" I did a double take and then started laughing! It's so strange to hear the un-policitally correct version... :)

Yet another reason why Stack was a class act - he spoke the truth and he didn't mince any words in doing so.

Kane
06-25-2007, 07:46 PM
I understand that Kane himself wasn't blaming the victim in this case and I see his point about others not seeing it in the same way. However, I still believe that it is wrong to blame the victim regardless of the situation.

That's what I was basicallly pointing out. I find it sickening when someone goes as far as to blame a victim. It tends to give me the feeling that it is a desperate attempt to make the truly guilty party appear less responsible than they really are.

Jim murdered her and he and only he can bear that responsibility. He was the one with the 'issues' with his temper, physical violence, and stalking. Annette cannot be blamed for any of it.

True about both Jim and Annette. Annette is not at fault for what had happened to her. She died because her husband couldn't control his temper.

HyeTev
06-26-2007, 10:28 AM
I still cannot believe that Burnside didn't get a date with 'Old Sparky' for this murder. Seems to me that this could easily be classified as a murder with special circumstances (stalking) that would mandate an automatic death sentence.

carebears
11-28-2010, 06:40 PM
I think Dave and Annette were just friends and co workers going to lunch and no romance involved. Dave could have been married to someone else, that doesn't mean he couldn't have been involved romantically with Annette because men cheat on their wives all the time.If Annette was seeing him, it wouldn't have been an affair because a couple days later,she would have appeared in court to start the divorce proceedings and she and her daughters secretly fled to Ohio before she was murdered while he was at work. Women and men that have already started divorce proceedings and in the process of getting a divorce date and most people don't think of it as an affair. If UM had said that she and Dave were involved, I wouldn't be saying she deserved to be murdered because Jim Burnside even tried killing cops and FBI men when they tried to apprehend him. Annette's cheating on him if it happened did not make him a murderer, he is just an evil crazy man.

cocytus
11-28-2010, 08:35 PM
If she was having an affair...so what?
She didn't deserve what happen to her.
The saddest parts of this story are that she wasn't able to successfully hide from Jim Burnside and that the cops that went to arrest him weren't better shots.

idol
07-12-2011, 02:39 PM
I've had lot of female co workers over the years that I would grab lunch with or run errands with during lunch. It could have been just that. Part of the segment mentioned her and Dave were going out for lunch. When you are trapped liked Annette and work is your only freedom you'll confide in at least one co worker eventually.

Hambone2421
07-12-2011, 03:13 PM
I've had lot of female co workers over the years that I would grab lunch with or run errands with during lunch. It could have been just that. Part of the segment mentioned her and Dave were going out for lunch. When you are trapped liked Annette and work is your only freedom you'll confide in at least one co worker eventually.

Completely agree. I go to lunch all the time with female co-workers just to get out of the office.

WishfulDreamer
07-13-2011, 03:09 AM
Completely agree. I go to lunch all the time with female co-workers just to get out of the office.

Just as I grab lunch/dinner with male acquaintances and friends all the time. I didn't get the vibe, from the limited info in the segment, that there was any relationship going on.

1990 UM fan
07-14-2011, 09:29 PM
Didn't she divorce her husband though? If she was divorced, then I don't see why having another male in her life would've been a problem. What I have a problem with is that the police said they couldn't do anything to help her until something happened, and look, Jim Burnside shoots "Dave" with a shotgun and stabs Annette to death. Good going, police.

dynoguy88
07-04-2012, 12:09 PM
A little off topic but this is for those who might be interested in whatever happened to Jim and Annette's 2 daughters.

The older daughter Stacie (who Jim threatened to kill to her face when she was 5) is now married with 2 children. Their family has a web site. I haven't had time to look through much of it yet but I think her husband might be a pastor.

http://kitchensfamily.com/

And here is Stacie's Facebook account:

http://www.facebook.com/stacie.a.kitchens?sk=info

Jim and Annette's other daughter Tara was just 3 when Annette was killed. She is married now as well.

http://www.facebook.com/tara.esteves

It's nice to see that despite the tragedies from their early childhood, both girls grew up well adjusted and now lead happy lives.

WishfulDreamer
10-15-2013, 09:38 PM
A little off topic but this is for those who might be interested in whatever happened to Jim and Annette's 2 daughters.

The older daughter Stacie (who Jim threatened to kill to her face when she was 5) is now married with 2 children. Their family has a web site. I haven't had time to look through much of it yet but I think her husband might be a pastor.

http://kitchensfamily.com/

And here is Stacie's Facebook account:

http://www.facebook.com/stacie.a.kitchens?sk=info

Jim and Annette's other daughter Tara was just 3 when Annette was killed. She is married now as well.

http://www.facebook.com/tara.esteves

It's nice to see that despite the tragedies from their early childhood, both girls grew up well adjusted and now lead happy lives.
Thank you for providing that info. This is one of those cases that really gets to me. It's nice to see that Annette's daughters are living happily now.

Orgazmo
12-10-2015, 05:43 AM
After being in prison for >20 years, Jim Burnside died on November 27th.

Search James Burnside: http://www.dc.state.fl.us/appcommon/

EDIT: Their daughters posted about it on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tara.esteves apparent heart attack

wiseguy182
12-10-2015, 06:32 AM
After being in prison for >20 years, Jim Burnside died on November 27th.

:clap :clap :clap :clap

smallmanbigmouth
12-10-2015, 06:30 PM
The thing I always found strange about this case is the fact that, if memory serves me correctly, it took over a year to find Jim Burnside. The area where Conley Buick is located (where Annette and her friend worked) is on one of two thoroughfares that run through Bradenton, going from I75 & downtown to the beaches. It's a very well-traveled area, and on top of that, it's near a mall that probably at that time was also well-traveled. I would think someone would have seen something, even Jim Burnside pedaling like a madman through the neighborhoods of Bradenton (as the segment suggests).

LooksLikeCRicci
12-11-2015, 11:52 AM
I love that this thread got bumped. I posed that question when I was still at college. I've been in the professional work force since late 2007 and have had lunch on numerous occasions with men who are co-workers and with whom I am not romantically involved with. As Hambone said-- a lot of times, its because you're hungry and just want out of the office.

Time is an amazing thing... :)

dynoguy88
12-11-2015, 01:20 PM
I love that this thread got bumped. I posed that question when I was still at college. I've been in the professional work force since late 2007 and have had lunch on numerous occasions with men who are co-workers and with whom I am not romantically involved with. As Hambone said-- a lot of times, its because you're hungry and just want out of the office.

Time is an amazing thing... :)

Well, it also doesn't hurt to have a significant other who is actually, you know, mentally stable. Someone who won't threaten to kill your child to their face because mommy bought a car.

Hambone2421
08-25-2016, 01:07 PM
After being in prison for >20 years, Jim Burnside died on November 27th.

Search James Burnside: http://www.dc.state.fl.us/appcommon/

EDIT: Their daughters posted about it on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tara.esteves apparent heart attack

I apologize for bumping this, but does anyone remember if Tara's facebook post about her father's death was sad in nature of more of "eh, who cares" type of thing?

Orgazmo
08-30-2016, 10:04 PM
I apologize for bumping this, but does anyone remember if Tara's facebook post about her father's death was sad in nature of more of "eh, who cares" type of thing?

The 'vibe' I got from their posts was that they had forgiven their father after everything he had done and attempted to be part of his life but he seemed uninterested. As a result, I feel like they were somewhat sad about his passing.

Taburn27
01-28-2017, 01:10 PM
The 'vibe' I got from their posts was that they had forgiven their father after everything he had done and attempted to be part of his life but he seemed uninterested. As a result, I feel like they were somewhat sad about his passing.

The day Stacie and I were notified, it wasn't a sad feeling. It was more of an, ok, this chapter is closed. Yes, you are correct about us reaching out to him over the years. When we were younger the dialogue was more of him trying to parent us, which was always weird and had to do with how we could make money when we were older. Once we were older it shifted to him trying to get money out of us. It was always clear to us that he was a manipulative person, but we left the door open in case he wanted to get to know us. So with the relationship we had, his death was sad to us in the fact that he never wanted to really know his children. We had the opportunity to have our questions answered over the years. So there was definitely closure. I'm not a sensitive person, so if any of you have questions just ask.

dynoguy88
01-28-2017, 05:43 PM
The day Stacie and I were notified, it wasn't a sad feeling. It was more of an, ok, this chapter is closed. Yes, you are correct about us reaching out to him over the years. When we were younger the dialogue was more of him trying to parent us, which was always weird and had to do with how we could make money when we were older. Once we were older it shifted to him trying to get money out of us. It was always clear to us that he was a manipulative person, but we left the door open in case he wanted to get to know us. So with the relationship we had, his death was sad to us in the fact that he never wanted to really know his children. We had the opportunity to have our questions answered over the years. So there was definitely closure. I'm not a sensitive person, so if any of you have questions just ask.

Wow. Thank you for dropping by, Tara. I'm incredibly sorry over what happened to your mom.

How are your grandparents doing? Are they still with us? I have immense admiration for them. They must have showered you with love, support and some sense of normalcy growing up which probably couldn't have been easy given the loss of your mother and how the whole ordeal unfolded.

You were very young when your mother was killed, I think 3 years old. Do you have any memories of her? I imagine you were too little to understand all the madness that was going on at the time before she died.

Did your father ever express any kind of remorse and guilt to you and your sister over what he did?

Love A Good Mystery
01-28-2017, 07:21 PM
Has this article about Dave been posted before?
http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20070212/gun-victims-case-is-set

LooksLikeCRicci
01-30-2017, 01:04 PM
The day Stacie and I were notified, it wasn't a sad feeling. It was more of an, ok, this chapter is closed. Yes, you are correct about us reaching out to him over the years. When we were younger the dialogue was more of him trying to parent us, which was always weird and had to do with how we could make money when we were older. Once we were older it shifted to him trying to get money out of us. It was always clear to us that he was a manipulative person, but we left the door open in case he wanted to get to know us. So with the relationship we had, his death was sad to us in the fact that he never wanted to really know his children. We had the opportunity to have our questions answered over the years. So there was definitely closure. I'm not a sensitive person, so if any of you have questions just ask.

We always appreciate the input/thoughts from the families involved. Yes, thank you for commenting. I am incredibly sorry for your loss.

kadrmaskb
02-03-2017, 12:42 AM
Hi, this is Kadrmas, I had to register under a different number as the email associated with my old account was deleted. So here I am! I post on this thread because the guy in this segment 'Dave' was arrested several years ago. I am sure this is posted on here somewhere but I imagine that experience would scar one for life. But Dave was charged for a bogus crime himself a few years ago. Glad it didn't catch up with him. http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/LK/20070630/News/605224031/SH/

siamesemeg
02-03-2017, 12:31 PM
Thanks for that update, Kadrmas. Interesting footnote to Dave's story. I have all the sympathy in the world for what he went through in the Burnside case, but ... it sounds like he was being a bit of a jerk at Home Depot there. I mean, $4. Let it go, man. Not worth criminal charges, but also not worth the scene he seems to have caused.

It's something out of notalwaysright dot com.