Sandy's first ep....great

[McFly121]

She and Bateman had a great scene at the end, and I was seriously fightin' the waterworks, because of how I (and I'm sure) a lot of people have been through dealing with a death in the family. When David turns and says he's glad that she's there, it was great. Good music, too.

[mstewart]

She and Bateman had a great scene at the end, and I was seriously fightin' the waterworks, because of how I (and I'm sure) a lot of people have been through dealing with a death in the family. When David turns and says he's glad that she's there, it was great. Good music, too.

Me too had a hard time watching that episode when the first time it was shown in 1987. It was a year after losing my grandmother and father in the same year and I cried watching that episode. Any show that year that had a storyline dealing with a loss had me flooding the room. But I did like the chemistry between Sandy Duncan and Jason Bateman. My preference is still Valerie Harper. Her final episode dealing with Mike's friend Skip and his new wife was a scream. Valerie was funny and some Rhodaisms came out in that episode.

[Edster2973]

She and Bateman had a great scene at the end, and I was seriously fightin' the waterworks, because of how I (and I'm sure) a lot of people have been through dealing with a death in the family. When David turns and says he's glad that she's there, it was great. Good music, too.

Sandy was great, as always, but I think the writing for this episode was a bit off. I just don't think there was ever any real closure for the family dealing with the loss of Valerie. Mark & Willie acted like nothing had happened as they horsed around as usual. Why weren't they given lines to express their heartbreak at losing their mom? How come Mrs. Poole never said anything?

Sandy Duncan & Jason Bateman were brilliant in their acting, but you could tell the show's writers were plenty pissed off at Valerie Harper, which is why Valerie Hogan never got her due. The family seemed to mourn the family dog in Season 1 more than they did Valerie's passing. A slam at Valerie Hogan was a slam against Valerie Harper, and I think the show suffered for it.

And like you, McFly121, I thought the end scene was touching as well, but again, some of the writing was off. The dialogue with Sandy & David made no sense at all at this point:

Sandy: Then why won't you let me help you?

David: I don't know. It's just I feel, if I don't hold on tight to everything, it'll all just, I don't know, go away.

Sandy: David, I'm not going anywhere. I want to be part of this family. But you have to let me. Don't shut me out. Just try and trust me a little...
--------------------------------------
This dialogue makes no sense. Sandy feels David won't let her in because he's grieving over the loss of his mother who died unexpectedly in a car accident. He feels like the rug was swept out from under him so he's playing super-control freak in a way of coping with his helplessness. So what does Sandy do? She tells him she's not going anywhere. How in the world can she make that sort of promise to him? Can she predict the future? Valerie wasn't planning on "going anywhere" either. She woke up one morning, got in her car at some point in the day and didn't come home. She didn't die of an illness. She died in an unexpected, unforeseen car crash. It was a chance accident. How can Sandy be sure a similar fate won't happen to her?

I give credit to Sandy Duncan for her portrayal on the series from here on in. She definitely rose to the occasion and could make you laugh or cry inspite of the crap she sometimes was handed. In some ways she was as much a victim as Valerie Harper. The show's writing suffered a lot when it chose to handle Valerie's death that way, and it continued on in similar fashion.

At first one thought the show had no choice but to go this route because of Valerie Harper and her so-called greed. But when the truth came out that Valerie was innocent and was instead "wrongly fired", I can't help but hate what the show did during its transition from Valerie to Valerie's Family/The Hogan Family. The whole feel of the show and the family's grief (or lack of it) is just off. It's like an entirely different show.

Me too had a hard time watching that episode when the first time it was shown in 1987. It was a year after losing my grandmother and father in the same year and I cried watching that episode. Any show that year that had a storyline dealing with a loss had me flooding the room. But I did like the chemistry between Sandy Duncan and Jason Bateman. My preference is still Valerie Harper. Her final episode dealing with Mike's friend Skip and his new wife was a scream. Valerie was funny and some Rhodaisms came out in that episode.

Valerie was brilliant in that episode, and to be quite honest, I much prefer the show during the Valerie era as well. But I attribute that more to the writing. The writing was less "set up" and more clever. But I also think there were some brilliant episodes with Sandy Duncan as well, though they were more miss than hit (given how silly some of the writing was). I thought at first my preference had to do with the actress herself (Valerie) but I think it boils down to the fact that Sandy was not given enough to do. By the time she came on, her character was more of a crutch to Jason Bateman's character and she never fully got to develop as she should have. It was as if Jason Bateman was the star and not Sandy and thus Sandy Hogan wasn't as much of a priority. She was just there to be the token grown-up woman in Valerie Hogan's place. But with little Sandy had to work with, she flew with it. I give her all the credit in the world...


Ed

[mstewart]

Sandy was great, as always, but I think the writing for this episode was a bit off. I just don't think there was ever any real closure for the family dealing with the loss of Valerie. Mark & Willie acted like nothing had happened as horsed around as usual. Why weren't they given lines to express their heartbreak at losing their mom? How come Mrs. Poole never said anything?

Sandy Duncan & Jason Bateman were brilliant in their acting, but you could tell the show's writers were plenty pissed off at Valerie Harper, which is why Valerie Hogan never got her due. The family seemed to mourn the family dog in Season 1 more than they did Valerie's passing. A slam at Valerie Hogan was a slam against Valerie Harper, and I think the show suffered for it.

And like you, McFly121, I thought the end scene was touching as well, but again, some of the writing was off. The dialogue with Sandy & David made no sense at all at this point:

Sandy: Then why won't you let me help you?

David: I don't know. It's just I feel, if I don't hold on tight to everything, it'll all just, I don't know, go away.

Sandy: David, I'm not going anywhere. I want to be part of this family. But you have to let me. Don't shut me out. Just try and trust me a little...
--------------------------------------
This dialogue makes no sense. Sandy feels David won't let her in because he's grieving over the loss of his mother who died unexpectedly in a car accident. He feels like the rug was swept out from under him so he's playing super-control freak in a way of coping with his helplessness. So what does Sandy do? She tells him she's not going anywhere. How in the world can she make that sort of promise to him? Can she predict the future? Valerie wasn't planning on "going anywhere" either. She woke up one morning, got in her car at some point in the day and didn't come home. She didn't die of an illness. She died in an unexpected, unforeseen car crash. It was a chance accident. How can Sandy be sure a similar fate won't happen to her?

I give credit to Sandy Duncan for her portrayal on the series from here on in. She definitely rose to the occasion and could make you laugh or cry inspite of the crap she sometimes was handed. In some ways she was as much a victim as Valerie Harper. The show's writing suffered a lot when it chose to handle Valerie's death that way, and it continued on in similar fashion.

At first one thought the show had no choice but to go this route because of Valerie Harper and her so-called greed. But when the truth came out that Valerie was innocent and was instead "wrongly fired", I can't help but hate what the show did during its transition from Valerie to Valerie's Family/The Hogan Family. The whole feel of the show and the family's grief (or lack of it) is just off. It's like an entirely different show.



Valerie was brilliant in that episode, and to be quite honest, I much prefer the show during the Valerie era as well. But I attribute that more to the writing. The writing was less "set up" and more clever. But I also think there were some brilliant episodes with Sandy Duncan as well, though they were more miss than hit (given how silly some of the writing was). I thought at first my preference had to do with the actress herself (Valerie) but I think it boils down to the fact that Sandy was not given enough to do. By the time she came on, her character was more of a crutch to Jason Bateman's character and she never fully got to develop as she should have. It was as if Jason Bateman was the star and not Sandy and thus Sandy Hogan wasn't as much of a priority. She was just there to be the token grown-up woman in Valerie Hogan's place. But with little Sandy had to work with, she flew with it. I give her all the credit in the world...


Ed

Wow Ed that was well done. Here was the story behind the whole thing with Valerie Harper. Yes, she wanted more money but also she wanted the show to have some depth and not having Jason Bateman's character having a girl friend every week and coming off shallow. Plus she did not want to be pushed aside the way Meredith Baxter Birney was on Family Ties and the show turned into the Michael J. Fox show. I saw that with Valerie slowly but surely. Valerie Harper is a great sitcom actress and could deliver a line. Her final episode dealing with Mike's friend she was hilarious. I was screaming everytime she opened her mouth. Her comedy was effortless whereas Meredith Baxter Birney had to work at it. Plus Valerie wanted the show to be an ensemble show like Mary Tyler Moore but when a family show is done it is impossible to have an ensemble show especially when kids are involve.

Yes, Sandy Duncan's performance on the show was good but the storylines was getting shallow and dealing with David getting a girl a week. I did find David Hogan a bit immature for my taste.

Another Sandy Duncan's performance was Episode #87, Snowbound, when she and Mike was dealing their parents. Her conflicts with her mom and dealing with her on it moved me to tears as well. The confrontation scene was moving and quite powerful between Sandy Duncan and Gretchen Wyler.

The Hogan Family had the potential of being a classic but with the trouble with Valerie Harper, the shallow storylines and lack of originality made the show another recycled family sitcom just with different actors in the roles.

Here's another thing about the Hogan Family I liked was the chemistry between Valerie Harper and Josh Taylor, who played her TV husband Mike, because they looked as though they could had been married in real life. They were a lot more compatible than when she did Rhoda and they married Rhoda off to Joe who was played by David Groh. They were not compatible and no chemistry was there between them. The writers could not come up with storylines for Rhoda and Joe after a season and a half of married life they separated and divorced. Another show that could had went down as a classic but lack of direction from the writers hurt Rhoda.

[Edster2973]

Wow Ed that was well done.

Thanks. I was expecting a bit of a backlash since there are many Sandy fans on here and I didn't want my preference of the Valerie era to be interpreted as my being anti-Sandy Duncan. As you can see, I very much support Sandy Duncan as well and appreciate what she tried to bring to the show. So thanks for the compliments on my views of the show.

Here was the story behind the whole thing with Valerie Harper. Yes, she wanted more money but also she wanted the show to have some depth and not having Jason Bateman's character having a girl friend every week and coming off shallow. Plus she did not want to be pushed aside the way Meredith Baxter Birney was on Family Ties and the show turned into the Michael J. Fox show. I saw that with Valerie slowly but surely. Valerie Harper is a great sitcom actress and could deliver a line. Her final episode dealing with Mike's friend she was hilarious. I was screaming everytime she opened her mouth. Her comedy was effortless whereas Meredith Baxter Birney had to work at it. Plus Valerie wanted the show to be an ensemble show like Mary Tyler Moore but when a family show is done it is impossible to have an ensemble show especially when kids are involve.

Thanks for the info, although I was already aware of the goings-on behind the scenes. For instance, Valerie pushed for the boys Mark and Willie to be used more since she felt there was more potential for storylines. She also wanted Edie McClurg to have more substance in her role as Patti Poole instead of being the token wacky next-door neighbor. And she loved the rapport Valerie Hogan had with girlfriend Annie Steck, comparing it with the likes of Lucy and Ethel and Mary & Rhoda. Unfortunately, Judith Kahan found herself without a job once Valerie was let go, simply because her character was too identified with the Valerie Hogan character (why the producers felt this way about Annie and not the rest of Valerie's family is beyond me...). Ironically, much of what Valerie wanted was implemented the year she was fired.

Yes, Sandy Duncan's performance on the show was good but the storylines was getting shallow and dealing with David getting a girl a week. I did find David Hogan a bit immature for my taste.

Another Sandy Duncan's performance was Episode #87, Snowbound, when she and Mike was dealing their parents. Her conflicts with her mom and dealing with her on it moved me to tears as well. The confrontation scene was moving and quite powerful between Sandy Duncan and Gretchen Wyler.

That was a brilliant performance by Sandy and shows what she could've accomplished if she had been given more to do. She was truly a class act, and if Valerie had to go (which we know by now wasn't the case), Sandy Duncan is the one you'd want to go with. She rocks.

The Hogan Family had the potential of being a classic but with the trouble with Valerie Harper, the shallow storylines and lack of originality made the show another recycled family sitcom just with different actors in the roles.

Which is why it is hardly seen in syndication and will probably be next to impossible to get released on DVD. Time will tell, eh?

Thanks for the thoughts pal.


Ed

[McFly121]

You both make great points and observations. You could just see the producers going "Let's *kill* Valerie off, mangle her in a car wreck! The traitor!" Or whatever. Plus leave it to "Mom died six months ago" and "Val's automobile accident". The ep was more about *Sandy's* adjustment more than the family's. Michael isn't even really there, like he mostly wasn't when Valerie was the star. Good to see his role expanded a little more after she left. My only guess is that was to showcase Harper more, since the show was created for her (reading today that exec. producer Cacciotti was her hubby, he was fired as well).

What I didn't like was that Sandy's arrival wasn't really explained. Had she been there a week, a month, three months? All we know is that she's divorced and Mike says "I couldn't have made it w/o you." Well, if she's been there for a good period, why hasn't she whipped the kids into shape and talked to David by that point? Sitcom writing isn't always perfect, I guess, lol.

I'm not a Valerie hater, I just think the writing got better after she left. Val had more of an edge, Sandy just seemed a little more kick-back. And I like how David grew up, so to speak. As Mstewart stated, David was too self-absorbed, and even more of a pest than Alex on Family Ties. But after Val's death, he seemed to mature and was more affected by things. Like coming up is when his teacher has a heart attack, and where he dates his chemistry teacher, I believe (that ep was ran back in April). Then a great two-parter in '88 or '89 where he falls in love with a girl he hates, ala Alex on Family Ties. He also gets his comeuppance when he spreads a rumor around school about a new girl.

They did show Willie and Mark being themselves, but I think it was an attempt to show they were getting back to normalcy. Mrs. Poole...ehhh...REALLY bad moment of "Don't be a fool, dial "P" for Poole!" Damn, that was embarrassing.

Judith Kahan (Annie)....I guess she was Valerie's married friend, and they could compare husband and kid stuff, while Sandy really couldn't. Divorced and raising her nephews at a distance since they weren't her own children. I'm sure Kahan was piffed at either Harper or Lorimar for her part being eliminated.

[mstewart]

You both make great points and observations. You could just see the producers going "Let's *kill* Valerie off, mangle her in a car wreck! The traitor!" Or whatever. Plus leave it to "Mom died six months ago" and "Val's automobile accident". The ep was more about *Sandy's* adjustment more than the family's. Michael isn't even really there, like he mostly wasn't when Valerie was the star. Good to see his role expanded a little more after she left. My only guess is that was to showcase Harper more, since the show was created for her (reading today that exec. producer Cacciotti was her hubby, he was fired as well).

What I didn't like was that Sandy's arrival wasn't really explained. Had she been there a week, a month, three months? All we know is that she's divorced and Mike says "I couldn't have made it w/o you." Well, if she's been there for a good period, why hasn't she whipped the kids into shape and talked to David by that point? Sitcom writing isn't always perfect, I guess, lol.

I'm not a Valerie hater, I just think the writing got better after she left. Val had more of an edge, Sandy just seemed a little more kick-back. And I like how David grew up, so to speak. As Mstewart stated, David was too self-absorbed, and even more of a pest than Alex on Family Ties. But after Val's death, he seemed to mature and was more affected by things. Like coming up is when his teacher has a heart attack, and where he dates his chemistry teacher, I believe (that ep was ran back in April). Then a great two-parter in '88 or '89 where he falls in love with a girl he hates, ala Alex on Family Ties. He also gets his comeuppance when he spreads a rumor around school about a new girl.

They did show Willie and Mark being themselves, but I think it was an attempt to show they were getting back to normalcy. Mrs. Poole...ehhh...REALLY bad moment of "Don't be a fool, dial "P" for Poole!" Damn, that was embarrassing.

Judith Kahan (Annie)....I guess she was Valerie's married friend, and they could compare husband and kid stuff, while Sandy really couldn't. Divorced and raising her nephews at a distance since they weren't her own children. I'm sure Kahan was piffed at either Harper or Lorimar for her part being eliminated.

As for Judith Kahan they were planning on writing out even if Valerie Harper was coming back. But the relationship of her and Valerie reminded me of Mary and Rhoda. They had good girl friend chemistry and too bad that it was not explored into more. Also that friendship reminded me of Laura Petrie and Millie Helper of the Dick Van Dyke Show.

As for Mrs. Poole she was too wacky for my taste. I remember that episode and I cringed at that comment as well. She was a bit overbearing especially in the episode Community Theatre. But that episode Valerie looked hot with that hairstyle she had.

The way Valerie Hogan was handled was done quite poorly and the character of David Hogan just rubbed me the wrong way. He was too whiney especially in the episode when he promised to babysit the twins and he had a better offer but Valerie told him no he made a promise. I loved it when Valerie did not backed down on her word. The kicker was when he told her can't she miss her self defense class. If I said something like that to one of my parents I would had got it in the worse way.

Unfortunately that was a sitcom with a good cast but not so great writing and lack of orignality.

[McFly121]

Yes, and much like the sitcoms of the time, the male teen star usually stole the show from the adult(s) it was supposed to be centered around. MJF on Family Ties, Kirk Cameron on Growing Pains, and Bateman on Valerie. If you notice a few times, he's the only who gets an ovation when he enters a scene, lol. Wonder if that irked Valerie at all.

[Edster2973]

As for Judith Kahan they were planning on writing out even if Valerie Harper was coming back. But the relationship of her and Valerie reminded me of Mary and Rhoda. They had good girl friend chemistry and too bad that it was not explored into more. Also that friendship reminded me of Laura Petrie and Millie Helper of the Dick Van Dyke Show.

This is interesting because I remember reading an article where Valerie Harper said one of her regrets of her firing was that Judith Kahan was also let go. She was brought on as a replacement of sorts for Barbara Goodwin, played by Christine Ebersole, who had left Valerie after Season 1 to star in her own show The Cavanaughs. So Judith Kahan was brought in instead. It sounded to me as if she was meant to be a permanent recurring character, since Valerie Harper suggested that it was her firing and the killing off of Valerie Hogan which led to Judith Kahan's dismissal. It's also why Uncle Skip's wife Darlene never showed up with Uncle Skip again, since, in real life, the actress who played Darlene, Arlene Golonka, was best friends with Valerie Harper. In any case, where did you hear that Judith Kahan would've been let go even if Valerie hadn't?

Speaking of Darlene, how was she written out of the show? I know Uncle Skip made a few more appearances, but what mention was there of his wife? Did they say he was divorced or that she was at home while he visited? Anyone know?

As for Mrs. Poole she was too wacky for my taste. I remember that episode and I cringed at that comment as well. She was a bit overbearing especially in the episode Community Theatre. But that episode Valerie looked hot with that hairstyle she had.

I liked Mrs. Poole a lot, actually. I thought she was darling, but again, the writing of her character started to suck out loud after Valerie's firing. It was like the show was trying too hard to show it could survive without Valerie, so they made Mrs. Poole more outrageous and clownish than ever before, almost to the point of being obnoxiously stupid and annoying. During the Valerie era, she was a bit of a naive, syrupy mother-type who, without realizing it, invited herself in situations where she hadn't been invited to, but you still liked her. She had a good heart, was cute and spacey but still likable. But during Valerie's Family and beyond, the show milked her eccentricity to borderline outrageous to guarantee the laugh. Her wackiness was a lot more subtle during Valerie; during Valerie's Family it became overblown. Her comedy was too forced. Whereas before you looked forward to seeing her, later her appearances became something one had to endure. Another example of sub-par writing.

The way Valerie Hogan was handled was done quite poorly and the character of David Hogan just rubbed me the wrong way. He was too whiney especially in the episode when he promised to babysit the twins and he had a better offer but Valerie told him no he made a promise. I loved it when Valerie did not backed down on her word. The kicker was when he told her can't she miss her self defense class. If I said something like that to one of my parents I would had got it in the worse way.

Unfortunately that was a sitcom with a good cast but not so great writing and lack of orignality.

When you say Valerie Hogan was handled quite poorly, do you mean her character per se or the way the show handled her death? I'm not sure from what you've written but I think you mean her death.

I too loved how she didn't back down on her word. It's what would've happened in real life and that's what the subtle differences in the show are. There was a bit more realism in the Valerie era than there was after she was killed off. In many instances, one could see their own families reflected in some of the episodes. After they killed her off, that ceased to be. It just became another family-type show, in a similar vein as Family Matters or Step By Step. Some of its spunk, originality and raison d'etre went out and was replaced with predictable, sitcom-y type plots and stories.

It's a lucky thing the cast was as good as it was or the show would never have survived as long as it did. Again, I give the cast all of the credit in the world for making some of this drek watchable and, in a lot of cases, funny. They all rock!

Ed

[Edster2973]

Yes, and much like the sitcoms of the time, the male teen star usually stole the show from the adult(s) it was supposed to be centered around. MJF on Family Ties, Kirk Cameron on Growing Pains, and Bateman on Valerie. If you notice a few times, he's the only who gets an ovation when he enters a scene, lol. Wonder if that irked Valerie at all.

If she was irked, it was never mentioned. All that was said was that she wanted Jason Bateman's character, David, to be explored more since the show had gotten into a rut where it was David and his girlfriend of the week. She felt there was more to David than that and that Jason was more than up to the task. She really spoke highly of his acting calibre and dismissed any notions whatsoever of jealousy on her end.

Of course, one could speculate that Valerie was merely backpeddling, trying to quell the rumors of her jealousy as a way of mending her then-tarnished reputation. But her claims were supported by Jason Bateman himself. He said he loved Valerie and regarded her as a 'second mother'. He said he and the whole cast was very upset at her firing and to this day has no idea why she was sacked.

His comments were repeated a couple of years later on The Joan Rivers Show when Joan questioned him about the show. This was long after Sandy Duncan was settled on the show (I think the show was in its 5th season). She asked him how the show wrote Valerie out and Sandy in and he remarked that, although he loved Sandy Duncan and was grateful that she helped the show stay on the air, the firing of Valerie was very painful for him and the other boys, especially since he thought of her as a "second mother".

I think if there was the slightest bit of jealousy/competition, either Valerie or Jason would've been upfront about it. There was no need for him to lie and cover up any bitterness at that late stage.

Valerie also wanted her character Valerie Hogan to have more dimension to her as well, but that it didn't mean sacrificing substance from Jason's character (or anyone else's) to do it. As she said, even though the show's name was Valerie, no matter who was the focus for a particular episode, if the writing had more depth and substance, then all benefitted from it. She wanted the show to become better, not take it over.

I'm inclined to believe her at this point...


Ed

[Edster2973]

I'm not a Valerie hater, I just think the writing got better after she left.

No way man. The show became more dumbed down and the stories were the same kind you'd find on shows like Family Matters or Full House. Contrived and unoriginal.

What soured me the most about the writing was the lack of acknowledgement of Valerie's death. It was just so lame and half-baked.

Other than Sandy's first episode, "Moving On", and the fire episode, "Burned Out", any other mention of her death was used as a setup for a joke.

One time was when Michael & Sandy asked how the boys felt about their dad going on a date (his first since Valerie's death), and the twins acted all indifferently. Cue laugh track. Yeah, really funny stuff... :rolleyes:

Second was when Mrs. Traegar was coming on to Michael after learning that not only was Sandy Michael's sister, but that Michael was also a widower. He was free for the taking as far as Mrs. Traegar was concerned. Again, cue laugh track. Talk about tacky and insensitive.

One could see the producers and writers were plenty pissed at Valerie Harper so any reference to her character's death was treated with as much indignity as possible. The only reason why the show was able to get away with it is because the public at that time was convinced that Valerie Harper was in the wrong and deserved what she got. Now that we know that wasn't the case, it makes those episodes almost unwatchable. I think that even if the actress herself was a complete witch (which, we know now, wasn't the case), there was no need to take it out on her character. Valerie Hogan loved her boys and husband. They were her whole world and, during the Valerie era anyway, they loved her equally. I can't help but feel that the blasé reactions over her death kind of spit on what went on before. There's just something off about it.

It certainly doesn't say much for her family as human beings if they can practically forget about her as if she never existed and continue on as if all was normal...

Ed

[McFly121]

Well, sitcoms are more apt to go for the laughs, even in an insensitive or unfeeling way. And the leftover animosity toward Harper was reflected by the writers/producers.

It's all relative, but though a cookie-cutter fam-com, I got a huge kick out of Mark and Willie getting a porno tape stuck in the VCR, David spread rumors of a girl in school, got involved with gambling, was affected by a teacher's heart attack, etc. These were things I hadn't either seen or explored by fam-coms of the time. The only real risk taken was on Growing Pains when Mike is exposed to cocaine. The other fam-coms played it safe with school or boyfriend/girlfriend stuff.

[friendsfan77]

But after Val's death, he seemed to mature and was more affected by things. Like coming up is when his teacher has a heart attack, and where he dates his chemistry teacher, I believe (that ep was ran back in April). Then a great two-parter in '88 or '89 where he falls in love with a girl he hates, ala Alex on Family Ties. He also gets his comeuppance when he spreads a rumor around school about a new girl.

Also, there's the episode where David locks Rich in the closet to keep him from driving drunk.

[Buffyboy323]

That ending scene was very nice. And the episode that followed that one, the one with the school rumor about Dave and that girl; There was a great scene there too. I like he and Sandy, better than him and his own mother.

[Scoobiedoo30]

what was the name of The First episode that Sandy was on

[Edster2973]

what was the name of The First episode that Sandy was on

I mentioned this up above in my last post. Her first episode is called "Moving On".


Ed

[Scoobiedoo30]

Thanks for letting me know that it was Moving on

[dave insinga]

the one when rich comes back and it is revealed he has aids.david tries to push himself away from the whole situation.sandy tells him a story about one of her friends who was dying or actually who had died and how she dealt with the situation.i felt the scene was moving.then david decides to go and spend time in the hospital with rich.its my favorite hogan episode. the best out of the cbs lot of episodes.john hillerman did nothing for that series.

[Schmoopie]

I've never seen this episode but it sounds wonderful. I had forgotten that they had Valerie's character die. How sad. I'd love to see it sometime. Hopefully someone posted it on Youtube.

[glickmam]

One could see the producers and writers were plenty pissed at Valerie Harper so any reference to her character's death was treated with as much indignity as possible. The only reason why the show was able to get away with it is because the public at that time was convinced that Valerie Harper was in the wrong and deserved what she got. Now that we know that wasn't the case, it makes those episodes almost unwatchable. I think that even if the actress herself was a complete witch (which, we know now, wasn't the case), there was no need to take it out on her character. Valerie Hogan loved her boys and husband. They were her whole world and, during the Valerie era anyway, they loved her equally. I can't help but feel that the blasé reactions over her death kind of spit on what went on before. There's just something off about it.

It certainly doesn't say much for her family as human beings if they can practically forget about her as if she never existed and continue on as if all was normal...

Ed

Agreed, buddy. Whoever was responsible for Ms. Harper's firing, whether it's Miller and Boyett, Lorimar, or NBC, should have been blacklisted or bankrupted for 5 years.

[megamanj2004]

I agree with Edster here.

The Valerie years brought that extra depth of realism to the show when Valerie Harper was around.

But once Valerie got the shaft treatment heave-ho, Sandy Duncan was brought in and although there were some good eps. with Sandy, the show became another silly, typical Miller-Boyett show along the lines of Full House, Family Matters, and Step by Step.

[Edster2973]

I've never seen this episode but it sounds wonderful. I had forgotten that they had Valerie's character die. How sad. I'd love to see it sometime. Hopefully someone posted it on Youtube.

If you're speaking about the AIDS episode, I have it posted on youtube:

Pt. 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9gwU9ImH9c

Pt. 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0WNDmNQ3sg&feature=related

Pt. 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwYTWnGsJeE&feature=related



If you're speaking of the episode "Movin' On" where Sandy Duncan's character is introduced and we learn that Valerie Hogan has died in a car accident, I also have that posted on youtube:

Pt. 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Edaz-oWNU

Pt. 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snNyaqF4kdY&feature=related

Pt. 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiUyswQN0kw&feature=related


If you need anything else, either check out my playlist on youtube (Edster73) or Chazz's playlist (ClassicTVChazz). You're bound to find what you need. Enjoy!


Ed

[Edster2973]

I agree with Edster here.

The Valerie years brought that extra depth of realism to the show when Valerie Harper was around.

But once Valerie got the shaft treatment heave-ho, Sandy Duncan was brought in and although there were some good eps. with Sandy, the show became another silly, typical Miller-Boyett show along the lines of Full House, Family Matters, and Step by Step.


I'm glad someone gets what I'm saying. All people hear is that I'm somehow against Sandy Duncan, and that isn't the case. I think the quality and level of writing could've been maintained with Sandy there, and although I still would've missed Valerie and her character, I would've enjoyed the show more or less in the same way. But that wasn't the case.

How they handled Valerie Hogan dying is proof of that. It was hardly on their radar and I think in order for that episode not to look like it was from a different universe, that sub-level of silliness continued on. What saved the show, and what still appealed to me as a viewer, was the acting. As sub-par and unoriginal as many of the stories were, the actors had a way of making some of the recycled jokes and gag humor sound very fresh and original. Just goes to show you that the cast was dynamite, and I definitely include Sandy Duncan in that. Valerie Harper wasn't the only one to suffer when she was booted off of the show. In many ways, the whole cast (including Duncan) was victimized and I think this is why the show is hardly remembered at all except for the die-hards. It's quite sad when someone brings up the show and all that's really remembered is that Valerie was fired from it.

The show deserves more than that, and so do the cast and its fans.

~ to Miller/Boyett, Lorimar and NBC - Hope all the ego wars and battles over money were worth it. Because of what transpired, the show is hardly ever aired in syndication and none of you makes any money from it. Way to go dummies!!!

Ed