Is 8 episodes to many for a DVD for a half hour show?

[gilligan fanatic]

Wait Till Your Father Gets Home starts on Boomerang next week and I am making a set for it. I am not planning on editing out the commercials because I just don't have the time. I was thinking of recording it in LP mode which is 4 hours on a DVD. I have done a ton of stuff in that quality and I just don't think it is bad, especially if that is what it will originaly be recorded in. Any opinions about LP?

[jie3]

Personally, I don't care if it's sp or lp, and don't really see much difference.

But I record quite a few things over here in the UK for some US traders, and they will accept nothing less than sp.

So when I make up my sets, I usually stick to no more than five 25-30 min episodes per disc.

J

[pupil1313]

I think 4-6 episodes are ok, 8 is more than enough, that's for me.

[anglemark10]

I do almost everything in LP unless I get a special request. The difference between SP and LP is so minimal that it isn't worth the extra discs.

[cptdunsal]

I have to say that the most I record on a DVD is 3 hr. Anything more and the compression is noticable. Now it does depend on the brand of recorder and media. But if your going to make a set why would you want ANY distortion.
There's 48 episodes of "father". It would only add 2 disks to put 6 episodes per disk and the chance of any distortion would be much less.

[three 14]

i just put 11 murphy brown shows on 1 dvd on LP and the picture is great.

[wheezer210]

7 half hour episodes is the max for good quality (equivilent to a clean cable signal). When discs are .20-.30 each why sacrafice the quality? If you are going to originate a set, or re-do a set that someone else did a poor job at why not do the best you can? I have originated a few sets and I can tell you that if you are going to do a joblike this do it well....people will notice. With DVD-r's as cheap as they are, it is not worth the comprimise.

three 14....unless you are using 8.5 GB discs,dual side discs or have access to professional grade equipment, I have a VERY hard time beliving that is possible with out any artifacts. There is no software compression that would allow such compression without the sacrafice to quality.

[Lamont]

it all depends on the quality, the source and how its done

also, i prefer to have a sitcom, thats 30 mins, to have 5 per disc IF its a shorter run set

NOW if its a 200 episode series, of course, id prefer it at 4 hours per disc, because noone wants a 40 disc set of some silly sitcom

[digitalmonkey]

Wait Till Your Father Gets Home starts on Boomerang next week and I am making a set for it. I am not planning on editing out the commercials because I just don't have the time. I was thinking of recording it in LP mode which is 4 hours on a DVD. I have done a ton of stuff in that quality and I just don't think it is bad, especially if that is what it will originaly be recorded in. Any opinions about LP?


Gilligan, I'd definitely be interested in this set when you get it finished. I remember watching this show as a kid. I catch myself still singing the theme song to this day.

[lilhave]

A friend of mine has almost finished putting together the Lone Ranger series, 182 eps in black and white, 10 to a disk in perfect quality. They made 40 in color and while he only has 20, he will still put them 10 to a disk. They were digitally captured so the quality is outstanding.

Harvey

[three 14]

well the pictures look great to me and i cut out the ads, first i tape them on a vhs tape on sp then i put them on dvd on lp each show runs 24min.

[omg65]

In all the experiences I have ever had,recording most things over 2 hours has noticeable pixelation/quality issues.I do have flexmode on my recorder which allows me to go up to 3 hours with much better results than recording something in LP.I deal alot with sports which has alot of movement so the pixealtion potential in the LP mode is very noticeable.Sitcoms may be different but I prefer SP on everything.

[robyrob]

are your only options with your recorder SP or LP ?

I had asked myself the same question about SP versus LP, and i discovered that my recorder allows for a manual compression setting, which fits 177 minutes per disk instead of 223 minutes at LP or the +/-120 minutes at SP, you can still fit about 8 half-hour shows on a disk with the commercials removed, and the quality still looks very good (much better than LP) I plan to record a lot more stuff at this setting.

for me, i try to keep smaller sets at higher quality, and stuff with a LOT of episodes (like Benson od HD) at LP.

[omg65]

are your only options with your recorder SP or LP ?

I had asked myself the same question about SP versus LP, and i discovered that my recorder allows for a manual compression setting, which fits 177 minutes per disk instead of 223 minutes at LP or the +/-120 minutes at SP, you can still fit about 8 half-hour shows on a disk with the commercials removed, and the quality still looks very good (much better than LP) I plan to record a lot more stuff at this setting.

for me, i try to keep smaller sets at higher quality, and stuff with a LOT of episodes (like Benson od HD) at LP.


That sounds like the flexmode option.Older Panasonic(which I have) and Pioneer recorders have that option on them.Flexmode is wonderful if you have a VHS tape you need to convert that is a bit over 2 hours and you don't want to record it in the LP mode and wind up with pixelation.

[gilligan fanatic]

I have a bunch of speeds, but I don't think I have a three hour speed. I have HQ SP LP EP and maybe one other. If I did 6 episodes instead of 8 episodes in the 4 hour format would that be better?

[omg65]

I have a bunch of speeds, but I don't think I have a three hour speed. I have HQ SP LP EP and maybe one other. If I did 6 episodes instead of 8 episodes in the 4 hour format would that be better?

Usually the speeds are set up like this but please look at your manual to verify:

HQ=1 hour
SP= 2 hours
LP=4 hours
EP=6 to 8 hours (don't ever use this mode it's worthless)

If it were me I would stick to the SP mode and put 4 episodes per disc to maintain maximum video quality.

[lazygrae]

Record your masters in SP for best quality, especially since you're not going to remove commercials. Then someone else who wants to create a nice set out of them has the option to stick with SP, or shrink them to LP.

Once you go beyond 2 1/2 hours recording time per disc, resolution is cut in half. The rest of the quality issue depends upon how good the encoder is - some units do a decent job at LP and do not introduce a lot of pixelation/mosquito noise into the picture, most units however are not particularly good.

You are better off recording in SP, authoring a VIDEO_TS folder to your hard drive and then shrinking that down with DVD Shrink to create a folder small enough to burn to a single disc. That will yield better results than recording direct to LP in most cases.

[gilligan fanatic]

Record your masters in SP for best quality, especially since you're not going to remove commercials. Then someone else who wants to create a nice set out of them has the option to stick with SP, or shrink them to LP.

Once you go beyond 2 1/2 hours recording time per disc, resolution is cut in half. The rest of the quality issue depends upon how good the encoder is - some units do a decent job at LP and do not introduce a lot of pixelation/mosquito noise into the picture, most units however are not particularly good.

You are better off recording in SP, authoring a VIDEO_TS folder to your hard drive and then shrinking that down with DVD Shrink to create a folder small enough to burn to a single disc. That will yield better results than recording direct to LP in most cases.

Now I never understood that last part at all. If I do that wouldn't it mess up the menus? I just don't get that part at all

[lazygrae]

You are re-authoring, so yes, it would mess up the original menus, but who cares?

You record all the shows in SP, but want to eventually get 10 to a disc. So you rip and edit the 10 episodes to your computer's hard drive and re-author a disc with all 10 episodes and burn a VIDEO_TS folder to your hard drive (since it will be too big to record to a disc). You then open the VIDEO_TS folder in DVD Shrink and compress it down so it will fit onto a single disc, with whatever menu you authored, intact.

[Lamont]

the same kind of thing can be done wiht some tivo machines with built in burners

u can save stuff to the tivo, and then edit it and burn it all straight to the disc that way

drawback to that is that you are limited with editing and menus
and dont have a lot of options
but it can save time

[lordsmurf]

It also depends on what DVD recorder or capture card or MPEG encoder is used.
- For example, I would not touch a LP-mode disc made on a Panasonic DVD recorder with a 10-foot-pole. It will have blocks, plain and simple. Yuck!
- On the other hand, something recorded on a JVC or Pioneer DVD recorder, captured with a Hauppage PVR card, or encoded from captured AVI (not downloads) using Procoder or some others, would be be great.

It's not so much "speeds" as it is the quality of the video filters, the MPEG encoding quality, and the bitrate allocation.

Some have it, some do not.

There is also a lot of myth within the trading community, because people truly do not comprehend how video works. Things like resolution and interlace and transcoding can be complex topics.
- For example, DVD Shrink on a homemade disc is a horrible idea. Make it the correct size the first time around, or use more discs. Don't use a transcoding cheat meant for commercial encodes.
- Interlacing (or rather, lack thereof) is why VCDs look so horrible.
- Resolution is a concept that depends on the source. You cannot "lose" resolution if the source never had it. A 720x480 resolution encode is overkill when your VHS or tv recordings were not anywhere near that to begin with. You do not have to be afraid of "losing" what you never had. (Unfortunately, SP mode is still the only mode that looks good on most DVD recorders, because they are optimized for that setting, so you have to overkill. But when using better equipment, the Half D1 resolution modes look equally as good.)

Learn the difference between myth and fact.

[tdubel]

I only do SP, unless a long sporting event I will do LP. Whats the difference with 20 cent discs and I don't worry about how big sets get. Also, menus are nice when done right, but I can live with TIVO or recorder menus, not that big of deal. Menus can be horrid when done wrong, ie freezing, unreliability and can result in a non functioning disc.

I would rather have the best quality than a smaller set, number of discs are not an issue.

Tom

[gilligan fanatic]

Well it seems like there is an intrest in the set, so I will try to do my best on it. Would this be even better if I recorded it to a RW in HQ and dumped it to my computer, edited it out the commercials, and put it in SP or should I stick with one speed the whole way through?

[justins5256]

I
- For example, DVD Shrink on a homemade disc is a horrible idea. Make it the correct size the first time around, or use more discs. Don't use a transcoding cheat meant for commercial encodes.


Quick question about this - I have used it on occasion if a disc ends up running over time due to a miscalculation on my part. Is that okay?

[progrocktv]

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! Please DON'T record those is LP! Wait Till Your Father Gets Home is a RARER series and I'd highly recommend recording it on SP, especially of you're going from VHS! I can't tell you how many rare series I've seen RUINED because of people trying to cram 8-10 episodes per disc! :mad: I just got an enture run of A Man Called Sloane, which is a rare as heck series, crammed all on to one disc. The quality was bad enough, but doing that just ruined it!

I'd PLEASE ask you to reconsider!

[progrocktv]

- Interlacing (or rather, lack thereof) is why VCDs look so horrible.


De-interlacing is a BIG NO NO with me (especially for things shot on video). For those not familliar with De-interlacing basically it makes something originally shot on video tape in a studio (like let's say All In The Family or Sanford and Son) and gives it a dull and matted "film look" like it was originally shot on film (like Gilligan's Island or M*A*S*H) Each video frame is made up of 2 seperate video fields, and de-interlacing will throw out that second field when you encode to something like Divx, making the file size smaller. Sure it looks better on a computer monitor playing on Youtube, however, you loose LOTS of quality when viewed on a standard TV. Suddenly your episodes of Sanford and Son no longer look crisp and clear anymore. Also it adds more of a jerkyness to the picture and motion becomes blurred.

I recently got a TON of the KTMA Mystery Science Theater episodes on DVD, all de-interlaced and they now look like garbage!

But it's still amazing how some people won't even consider it a concern. Back in the 60's, early black and white episodes of Doctor Who were shot on video in a studio and transferred to 16mm film for storage. Recently a new technique called VidFire restores the "video look" that was lost when transferred to film (it really is amazing to see it like that) Anyways a buddy of mine got a bunch of these restored episodes, but in Divix format (which De-interlaces it, giving it that film look again) He was bragging about how great the Vidfire looks :lol: He just didn't get it until I showed him the same episode directly off of DVD on my PAL monitor, he was shocked. :rolleyes:

[gilligan fanatic]

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! Please DON'T record those is LP! Wait Till Your Father Gets Home is a RARER series and I'd highly recommend recording it on SP, especially of you're going from VHS! I can't tell you how many rare series I've seen RUINED because of people trying to cram 8-10 episodes per disc! :mad: I just got an enture run of A Man Called Sloane, which is a rare as heck series, crammed all on to one disc. The quality was bad enough, but doing that just ruined it!

I'd PLEASE ask you to reconsider!

No VHS is involved in this in anyway, and I decided just to make a good set of it, all in SP, and I will edit out the commercials too

[progrocktv]

No VHS is involved in this in anyway, and I decided just to make a good set of it, all in SP, and I will edit out the commercials too
WOO-HOO!

It's a good series. One of my favorite lines in it is when his daughter Alice wanted to go camping with some boys:

Dad: "You're not going camping with any boys!"

Alice: "But dad, that's not fair, you went camping with girls when you were young"

Dad: "Exactly, that's why you aren't going camping with any boys!"

[Beavis]

You are re-authoring, so yes, it would mess up the original menus, but who cares?

Ouch! Ouch! :p :p :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[tick26]

it all depends how many epcs you have. you don't want the last disc to have 3 eps on it. that's the problem you will run into by putting 8 eps on a disc. if you use good quality discs and not el cheapo ones you can't tell and if your machine has a good playback. i would keep it at 4 eps per disc. i only use lp for the one hour shows

[lordsmurf]

Quick question about this - I have used it on occasion if a disc ends up running over time due to a miscalculation on my part. Is that okay?

I would not do it.

Video encoding is a precision process with a ton of advanced calculations to verify all aspects of quality are maintained. Well, assuming you gave it enough bitrate allocation to begin with.

Video transcoding is like a partial encode. It re-calculates a small portion of the equation, and tosses out extra bits of information. That's how it "shrinks" the video file size.

Studio-made work is generally from a clean scan of film or transfer of video masters, and heavily processed, using high-dollar encoders. They also over-allocate the bitrate, especially on those DVD9 discs.

Homemade work has none of that. You're working from relatively dirty source (VHS, tv, satellite, etc), and you're using cheaper encoder setups. Even the best homemade video will have visual errors not found in studio work.

Now, when you try to shrink studio work, it mostly just eliminates the excess. When you do it on homemade work, there is not any excess to work with, so you're throwing away much-needed data.

I guess if you're in a bind, you can get away with a small margin of maybe 3-4%, but even that can often lead to blocking. DVD recorders are really bad about barely using enough bitrate as it is, especially at SP 2-hour mode. It's just starved. The 1-hour XP and sometime 3-hour (depends on machine) have a bit of excess allocation.

I would just totally re-encode the video, tweak settings so it fits. Shoot for 4.0-4.2GB worth of video on a disc. If you try to run all the way up to 4.38GB, you'll more likely go into the 4.4-4.5GB range. The re-encode will fully decode and fully re-encode the entire equation, and will just that much better.

If you'd like to keep the original DVD menu and everything as is, get the freeware DVD Rebuilder, pick one of the encoders to plug in (Procoder, CCE, some freeware MPEG encoders), and then the process is automated. It will take about half a day, so have it work overnight while you sleep.

And don't make the same mistake again. Good luck. :)