Verdict in the Moussaoui sentencing trial

[Brent88]

To be read at 4:30pm EDT.

[Brad Russ]

To be read at 4:30pm EDT.

Thanks for the info Brent!! I'll definitely be watching!!

[Brent88]

Life in prison without parole.

[Ireneparalegal]

thank God...he won't be a martyr...

[Brad Russ]

thank God...he won't be a martyr...

Exactly!!! Had they given him death, they would have given him exactly what he wanted. Instead, he is going to spend 23 hours a day in solitary confinement, where he'll have to think about what he's done 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and for the rest of his life.

[Ireneparalegal]

Exactly!!! I hope they make the rest of his pathetic little life, absolutely miserable.
I hope i don't get in trouble for this pic:

[gilligan fanatic]

Life in Prison, I guess that is what I wanted for him. I was unsure about it, but that is what I was leaning toward.

[Brent88]

I hope i don't get in trouble for this pic:

:brent

I'm happy he didn't get what he wanted. The only way I wanted him to get death is if it would be a very slow and very painful death. Lethal injection sucks...

[Janice]

I'm sickened by this verdict. What does a person have to do to receive the death penalty? I doubt he wanted to die, and I couldn't care less if he became a martyr or not. Who gives a rat's ass what those fanatics think? They're out of their minds and hate us anyway.

This monster's silence caused the death of 3,000 lives. How many had to die, I wonder...for him to die? Five, eight, ten thousand? What was the magic number?

[Brad Russ]

I'm sickened by this verdict. What does a person have to do to receive the death penalty? I doubt he wanted to die, and I couldn't care less if he became a martyr or not. Who gives a rat's ass what those fanatics think? They're out of their minds and hate us anyway.

This monster's silence caused the death of 3,000 lives. How many had to die, I wonder...for him to die? Five, eight, ten thousand? What was the magic number?

I just think a painless death, would be way too good for the creep. He deserves a much worse punishment than that.

[Janice]

I just think a painless death, would be way too good for the creep. He deserves a much worse punishment than that.
Who said anything about a painless death? I've got a few ideas. :lol:

I just think he deserves to die, just as Timothy McVeigh did.

[gilligan fanatic]

ok, after doing some research on this I go against what I said earlier in this thread. On O'Reilly tonight they said the reasons the jury went with life in prison. It wasn't because they thought he was crazy, not because they thought he would be a martyr but because they felt bad for him because he was "treated bad" by his parents. What a dumb reason. I did some research on the SuperMax prisons and those things have got to cost millions of dollars to make. Also I was reading the people in the prisons now and there are know where near as bad as what Moussaoui could have done. He could have saved so many peoples lives. I am very annoyed at the reason for life and prison now.

Saw this at Wikipedia

The following link: Special Verdict Form for Phase II (http://notablecases.vaed.uscourts.gov/1:01-cr-00455/docs/72321/0.pdf) is to the official jury ballot in .PDF file format

[Seth]

Moussaoui getting death would be a bad thing for one reason and one reason only: He'd become a martyr for the causes of these people, uniting them and making them even MORE dangerous.

With life imprisonment he doesn't get the opportunity to die for his loony "cause", while at the same time he gets the, uh, pleasure, of sitting and rotting for the rest of his life in a dark, damp, cell.

If the reason why they gave him the life sentence is due to the "crazy" plea, personally, I think the jury is crazy twice once over: 1)The man's crazy, just not necessarily in the padded room/lithium type way. 2)For actually admitting THAT was why they did it. Even if your real reason is because of the insanity thing, you could still claim it was due to fear of him becoming a martyr.

[gilligan fanatic]

my mom saw this on TV and I thought it was kind of funny. They were interviewing one of Moussaouis relatives last week and they asked if his relative thought that Moussaoui would be a martyr. His relative said "He won't be a martyr, he will be a dead Muslim".

[Seth]

"He won't be a martyr, he will be a dead Muslim".

Which to some extremists in that particular religion would be just as bad, if not worse.

[gilligan fanatic]

Which to some extremists in that particular religion would be just as bad, if not worse.

hmm, you are right. I never thought if it like that. That could go with the U.S. hates Muslims that Al quadia was talking about in there videos last week.

[ABlairican Pie]

I hope i don't get in trouble for this pic::rotflmao:

[ABlairican Pie]

I'm sickened by this verdict. What does a person have to do to receive the death penalty? I doubt he wanted to die, and I couldn't care less if he became a martyr or not. Who gives a rat's ass what those fanatics think? They're out of their minds and hate us anyway.

This monster's silence caused the death of 3,000 lives. How many had to die, I wonder...for him to die? Five, eight, ten thousand? What was the magic number?I have mixed feelings about this verdict. I think that if they fried him, he would look like a martyr, but life in prison gets him off too easily. He acts like he doesn't care how many lives he took down, how do we get him to acknowledge the gravity of his crimes? That's what drives me crazy about this, either way, he comes off smelling like a winner (to himself, at least). pig:

I want his ass to fry (in pig lard), but I want him to SUFFER with the knowledge of what a piece of human filth he is, and WHY his flesh is being quick-fried to a crackly crunch. :mad:

[Janice]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/printThis.html?id=110008330
PEGGY NOONAN

They Should Have Killed Him

The death penalty has a meaning, and it isn't vengeance.

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP)--Moussaoui said as he was led from the courtroom: "America, you lost." He clapped his hands.

Excuse me, I'm sorry, and I beg your pardon, but the jury's decision on Moussaoui gives me a very bad feeling. What we witnessed here was not the higher compassion but a dizzy failure of nerve.

From the moment the decision was announced yesterday, everyone, all the parties involved--the cable jockeys, the legal analysts, the politicians, the victim representatives--showed an elaborate and jarring politesse.

"We thank the jury." "I accept the verdict of course." "We can't question their hard work." "I know they did their best." "We thank the media for their hard work in covering this trial." "I don't want to second-guess the jury."

How removed from our base passions we've become. Or hope to seem.
It is as if we've become sophisticated beyond our intelligence, savvy beyond wisdom. Some might say we are showing a great and careful generosity, as befits a great nation. But maybe we're just, or also, rolling in our high-mindedness like a puppy in the grass. Maybe we are losing some crude old grit. Maybe it's not good we lose it.

No one wants to say, "They should have killed him." This is understandable, for no one wants to be called vengeful, angry or, far worse, unenlightened. But we should have put him to death, and for one big reason.

This is what Moussaoui did: He was in jail on a visa violation in August 2001. He knew of the upcoming attacks. In fact, he had taken flight lessons to take part in them. He told no one what was coming. He lied to the FBI so the attacks could go forward. He pled guilty last year to conspiring with al Qaeda; at his trial he bragged to the court that he had intended to be on the fifth aircraft, which was supposed to destroy the White House.

He knew the trigger was about to be pulled. He knew innocent people had been targeted, and were about to meet gruesome, unjust deaths.
He could have stopped it. He did nothing. And so 2,700 people died.

This is what the jury announced yesterday. They did not doubt Moussaoui was guilty of conspiracy. They did not doubt his own testimony as to his guilt. They did not think he was incapable of telling right from wrong. They did not find him insane. They did believe, however, that he had had an unstable childhood, that his father was abusive and then abandoning, and that as a child, in his native France, he'd suffered the trauma of being exposed to racial slurs.

As I listened to the court officer read the jury's conclusions yesterday I thought: This isn't a decision, it's a non sequitur.

Of course he had a bad childhood; of course he was abused. You don't become a killer because you started out with love and sweetness. Of course he came from unhappiness. So, chances are, did the nice man sitting on the train the other day who rose to give you his seat. Life is hard and sometimes terrible, and that is a tragedy. It explains much, but it is not a free pass.

I have the sense that many good people in our country, normal modest folk who used to be forced to endure being patronized and instructed by the elites of all spheres--the academy and law and the media--have sort of given up and cut to the chase. They don't wait to be instructed in the higher virtues by the professional class now. They immediately incorporate and reflect the correct wisdom before they're lectured.

I'm not sure this is progress. It feels not like the higher compassion but the lower evasion. It feels dainty in a way that speaks not of gentleness but fear.

I happen, as most adults do, to feel a general ambivalence toward the death penalty. But I know why it exists. It is the expression of a certitude, of a shared national conviction, about the value of a human life. It says the deliberate and planned taking of a human life is so serious, such a wound to justice, such a tearing at the human fabric, that there is only one price that is justly paid for it, and that is the forfeiting of the life of the perpetrator. It is society's way of saying that murder is serious, dreadfully serious, the most serious of all human transgressions.

It is not a matter of vengeance. Murder can never be avenged, it can only be answered.
If Moussaoui didn't deserve the death penalty, who does? Who ever did?

And if he didn't receive it, do we still have it?

I don't want to end with an air of hopelessness, so here's some hope, offered to the bureau of prisons. I hope he doesn't get cable TV in his cell. I hope he doesn't get to use his hour a day in general population getting buff and converting prisoners to jihad. I hope he isn't allowed visitors with whom he can do impolite things like plot against our country.

I hope he isn't allowed anniversary interviews. I hope his jolly colleagues don't take captives whom they threaten to kill unless Moussaoui is released.

I hope he doesn't do any more damage. I hope this is the last we hear of him. But I'm not hopeful about my hopes.

[ABlairican Pie]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/printThis.html?id=110008330
PEGGY NOONAN

They Should Have Killed Him

The death penalty has a meaning, and it isn't vengeance.

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP)--Moussaoui said as he was led from the courtroom: "America, you lost." He clapped his hands.

Excuse me, I'm sorry, and I beg your pardon, but the jury's decision on Moussaoui gives me a very bad feeling. What we witnessed here was not the higher compassion but a dizzy failure of nerve.

From the moment the decision was announced yesterday, everyone, all the parties involved--the cable jockeys, the legal analysts, the politicians, the victim representatives--showed an elaborate and jarring politesse.

"We thank the jury." "I accept the verdict of course." "We can't question their hard work." "I know they did their best." "We thank the media for their hard work in covering this trial." "I don't want to second-guess the jury."

How removed from our base passions we've become. Or hope to seem.
It is as if we've become sophisticated beyond our intelligence, savvy beyond wisdom. Some might say we are showing a great and careful generosity, as befits a great nation. But maybe we're just, or also, rolling in our high-mindedness like a puppy in the grass. Maybe we are losing some crude old grit. Maybe it's not good we lose it.

No one wants to say, "They should have killed him." This is understandable, for no one wants to be called vengeful, angry or, far worse, unenlightened. But we should have put him to death, and for one big reason.

This is what Moussaoui did: He was in jail on a visa violation in August 2001. He knew of the upcoming attacks. In fact, he had taken flight lessons to take part in them. He told no one what was coming. He lied to the FBI so the attacks could go forward. He pled guilty last year to conspiring with al Qaeda; at his trial he bragged to the court that he had intended to be on the fifth aircraft, which was supposed to destroy the White House.

He knew the trigger was about to be pulled. He knew innocent people had been targeted, and were about to meet gruesome, unjust deaths.
He could have stopped it. He did nothing. And so 2,700 people died.

This is what the jury announced yesterday. They did not doubt Moussaoui was guilty of conspiracy. They did not doubt his own testimony as to his guilt. They did not think he was incapable of telling right from wrong. They did not find him insane. They did believe, however, that he had had an unstable childhood, that his father was abusive and then abandoning, and that as a child, in his native France, he'd suffered the trauma of being exposed to racial slurs.

As I listened to the court officer read the jury's conclusions yesterday I thought: This isn't a decision, it's a non sequitur.

Of course he had a bad childhood; of course he was abused. You don't become a killer because you started out with love and sweetness. Of course he came from unhappiness. So, chances are, did the nice man sitting on the train the other day who rose to give you his seat. Life is hard and sometimes terrible, and that is a tragedy. It explains much, but it is not a free pass.

I have the sense that many good people in our country, normal modest folk who used to be forced to endure being patronized and instructed by the elites of all spheres--the academy and law and the media--have sort of given up and cut to the chase. They don't wait to be instructed in the higher virtues by the professional class now. They immediately incorporate and reflect the correct wisdom before they're lectured.

I'm not sure this is progress. It feels not like the higher compassion but the lower evasion. It feels dainty in a way that speaks not of gentleness but fear.

I happen, as most adults do, to feel a general ambivalence toward the death penalty. But I know why it exists. It is the expression of a certitude, of a shared national conviction, about the value of a human life. It says the deliberate and planned taking of a human life is so serious, such a wound to justice, such a tearing at the human fabric, that there is only one price that is justly paid for it, and that is the forfeiting of the life of the perpetrator. It is society's way of saying that murder is serious, dreadfully serious, the most serious of all human transgressions.

It is not a matter of vengeance. Murder can never be avenged, it can only be answered.
If Moussaoui didn't deserve the death penalty, who does? Who ever did?

And if he didn't receive it, do we still have it?

I don't want to end with an air of hopelessness, so here's some hope, offered to the bureau of prisons. I hope he doesn't get cable TV in his cell. I hope he doesn't get to use his hour a day in general population getting buff and converting prisoners to jihad. I hope he isn't allowed visitors with whom he can do impolite things like plot against our country.

I hope he isn't allowed anniversary interviews. I hope his jolly colleagues don't take captives whom they threaten to kill unless Moussaoui is released.

I hope he doesn't do any more damage. I hope this is the last we hear of him. But I'm not hopeful about my hopes.
Let's hope he gets the Jeffrey Dahmer treatment.:mad: When he said that about "America, you lost", someone should have taken him out right then and there. These freaks need to have the fear of God instilled in their sorry prune-shaped hearts.

[T_ID]

Let's hope he gets the Jeffrey Dahmer treatment.:mad: When he said that about "America, you lost"Oh, don't worry, come back in a decade or so and you'll see his attitude will be broken.

I find the verdict an example of how it's supposed to be. A trial that's been fair, controllable with a verdict that's based more on justice then dumb feelings of hate.

Perhaps I should take back a few of my comments that America has lost the essence of justice, this jury proves there's exceptions at least. :)

[Ireneparalegal]

ok, after doing some research on this I go against what I said earlier in this thread. On O'Reilly tonight they said the reasons the jury went with life in prison. It wasn't because they thought he was crazy, not because they thought he would be a martyr but because they felt bad for him because he was "treated bad" by his parents. What a dumb reason. I did some research on the SuperMax prisons and those things have got to cost millions of dollars to make. Also I was reading the people in the prisons now and there are know where near as bad as what Moussaoui could have done. He could have saved so many peoples lives. I am very annoyed at the reason for life and prison now.

Saw this at Wikipedia

The following link: Special Verdict Form for Phase II (http://notablecases.vaed.uscourts.gov/1:01-cr-00455/docs/72321/0.pdf) is to the official jury ballot in .PDF file format
You know what I found odd shortly after the verdict was read? is the newscaster immediately mentioning how much "it's going to cost us taxpayers to keep him in prison"...he stated at least $100,000.

I don't recall any other high profile case where a newscaster immediately mentioned the "cost" like that.

[Lee]

Originally posted by ABlairican Pie:
Let's hope he gets the Jeffrey Dahmer treatment.


Here is something you may not know:before he was killed by a prison inmate, Jeffrey Dahmer
was baptized into christ and became a member of my church, The Church Of Christ. That means
if he truly repented of his sins before he died, then he will be with god in heaven.

[ABlairican Pie]

Originally posted by ABlairican Pie:
Let's hope he gets the Jeffrey Dahmer treatment.


Here is something you may not know:before he was killed by a prison inmate, Jeffrey Dahmer
was baptized into christ and became a member of my church, The Church Of Christ. That means
if he truly repented of his sins before he died, then he will be with god in heaven.Yeah, I heard about that. I should change my statement. I hope he truly did repent. I also heard that his assailant was this mentally ill inmate who believed himself to be Christ simply because his mother and father's name was Mary and Joseph! :eek: ohno:

[Mikado]

Hey...but look how hes suffering, now he wont get his 79 virgins :lol:

[gilligan fanatic]

You know what I found odd shortly after the verdict was read? is the newscaster immediately mentioning how much "it's going to cost us taxpayers to keep him in prison"...he stated at least $100,000.

I don't recall any other high profile case where a newscaster immediately mentioned the "cost" like that.

do you know if that was $100,000 for his entire life or was that just for one year?

[ABlairican Pie]

do you know if that was $100,000 for his entire life or was that just for one year?I have a funny feeling it will be $100,000 each year for the rest of his unnatural life. $100 grand WE will have to pay.

Should have beat his ass to a pulp after he uttered his stupid "America lost" comment and before he left the courtroom. :mad:

[Janice]

The Judge's response when Moussaoui said that American lost.

"Mr. Moussaoui, when this proceeding is over, everyone else in this room will leave to see the sun ... hear the birds ... and they can associate with whomever they want. You will spend the rest of your life in a supermax prison. It's absolutely clear who won.

Mr. Moussaoui, you came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory, but to paraphrase the poet T.S. Eliot, instead you will die with a whimper.

You will never get a chance to speak again, and that's an appropriate ending."

[Janice]

With a Whimper

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/06.05.04.WithAWimper-X.gif

[Mikado]

This is probably for the best, his claims that he won are empty boasts, hes probably already thought of as a coward by his compatriots. Think of it, he failed to succeed in his mission to kill for Allah , and now , hes a failure to himself because he wont die and get his virgins, he cant even be a martyr! He may talk a good battle for a minute or two, but, for him, this is a personal failure; and he no doubt knows it...hes probably going to suffer a lot more rotting in prison for who knows how long; so, dont feel too badly that hes not going to die, for him this will be a living death .

[Brian]

Here's where he is going to stay for the rest of his life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence

[Janice]

http://www.creators.com/0430/CB/CB0505g.gif

[Janice]

http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060505/sack.jpg

http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060508/markstein.gif


http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060505/thompson.jpg

[Janice]

http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/060509/arial.gif (http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/2580/mous1clickon8ih.jpg)

[ABlairican Pie]

Janice, are you implying that Moussaoui is going to be a male inmate's "b word"?
:lol:I don't think she's *implying* anything! ;) :lol:

I am trying to find out some story where he said he wants the life in prison conviction thrown out because he now said he lied on the stand? Like, fat chance, Zakky-boy. :rolleyes:

[D-Dey]

Let's hope he gets the Jeffrey Dahmer treatment.:mad:
I'm quite confident he will. What bothers me about this attitude that "executing him will only make him look like a martyr," is that six years ago, a white supremacist reject down in rural Texas who dragged a black man from the back of his pickup truck felt the same way, and he was given the death penalty almost instantly.

[Brad Russ]

I'm quite confident he will. What bothers me about this attitude that "executing him will only make him look like a martyr," is that six years ago, a white supremacist reject down in rural Texas who dragged a black man from the back of his pickup truck felt the same way, and he was given the death penalty almost instantly.

Yeah, the hypocrasy's and inconsistancies in our so called justice system, are pretty out of control right now. I agree with you there.

[gilligan fanatic]

I'm quite confident he will. What bothers me about this attitude that "executing him will only make him look like a martyr," is that six years ago, a white supremacist reject down in rural Texas who dragged a black man from the back of his pickup truck felt the same way, and he was given the death penalty almost instantly.

I would like to do a little reading on that. Do you remember the guy's name?

[Janice]

I would like to do a little reading on that. Do you remember the guy's name?
James Byrd Jr. It was such a sad and terrible thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Byrd_Jr

[gilligan fanatic]

ok, thanks Janice

[D-Dey]

James Byrd Jr. It was such a sad and terrible thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Byrd_Jr

Actually, I was referring to John William King, and from what I remember, his lawyer tried to use his gang rape in prison as an excuse for the crime he and his friends carried out, but his own testimony as well as the one from his ex-girlfriend proved his hatred was so blatant, that they all but gave up on him. The kid was so obviously guilty, that an all-white jury full of paleo-conservatives would've easily convicted him.