Was "May We Make Them Proud" THAT Bad???

[Jack1000]

Guys,

I keep reading and hearing on this forum how bad "May We Make Them Proud" is. This is the one where the Blind School burns down and Adam Jr, along with Alice Garvey are killed in the fire.

Most of the criticism centeres on: Well, in real life Mary never married, obviously never had kids and to my knowledge never became a teacher. I agree about the unrealistic nature of Alice going back for the baby when Mary leaves to help get the students out. I also agree about Adam's "milktoast" personality, in this episode ("Um....Mary, Mary...there's a fire. We need to get the kids out.") Given the circumstances, some dialogue a bit more forcefull would have helped. Adam could stand up to others when threatened or challenged, but at times it wasn't often enough.

I think that in light of the above the acting IS good and several scenes do demonstrate how people may act or react in a state of shock. However, Alice trying to push the baby out through the window she smashes trying to get out can be a bit hard to watch.

I don't think MWMTP was THAT bad. But for those that do, is it because it dwelled too much on fictional situations that didn't occur in real life? Was it the acting? The directing? What scenes(s) should have been done differently?

Jack

[Ireneparalegal]

Guys,

I keep reading and hearing on this forum how bad "May We Make Them Proud" is. This is the one where the Blind School burns down and Adam Jr, along with Alice Garvey are killed in the fire.

Most of the criticism centeres on: Well, in real life Mary never married, obviously never had kids and to my knowledge never became a teacher. I agree about the unrealistic nature of Alice going back for the baby when Mary leaves to help get the students out. I also agree about Adam's "milktoast" personality, in this episode ("Um....Mary, Mary...there's a fire. We need to get the kids out.") Given the circumstances, some dialogue a bit more forcefull would have helped. Adam could stand up to others when threatened or challenged, but at times it wasn't often enough.

I think that in light of the above the acting IS good and several scenes do demonstrate how people may act or react in a state of shock. However, Alice trying to push the baby out through the window she smashes trying to get out can be a bit hard to watch.

I don't think MWMTP was THAT bad. But for those that do, is it because it dwelled too much on fictional situations that didn't occur in real life? Was it the acting? The directing? What scenes(s) should have been done differently?

Jack
I have no idea what others have stated abt this episode, but it is heartwrenching. The part I only have a tough time dealing with is the fact Mary walked away from her baby. Being a mother, my first reaction would have been to grab my child and then get the remaining children.
Seeing Alice trying her best and doing what I am certainly alot of people would have done in the same circumstances, is get out any way she could. Not to compare a real situation with a fictional one, but how many fires in buildings have we seen people climb out on ledges, jump out, etc. just to get away from the fire? It's human instinct.

[Mijada]

I didn't care for that episode and how they wrote Alice Garvey out of the show. She was a great character imo. I agree with Irene about Mary walking away from her baby to save the other kids first. It wasn't very realistic at all. The first thing I would do is grab my kid and get out. There were 3 other adults in the house who could have gotten the other kids out.

[Jack1000]

I didn't care for that episode and how they wrote Alice Garvey out of the show. She was a great character imo. I agree with Irene about Mary walking away from her baby to save the other kids first. It wasn't very realistic at all. The first thing I would do is grab my kid and get out. There were 3 other adults in the house who could have gotten the other kids out.


Why did they write Alice out of the show? Did the actress just want out of her contract?

Jack

[seventies_sitcoms]

Did you all know that Hersha was almost Caroline's replacement, but Karen Grassle decided to stay? Michael Landon liked her so much he gave her the part of the wife of his new best friend Jonathan Garvey. I liked Alice too and hated to see her character get written out like that.

If you watch the episode on Hallmark a lot of Alice's scenes are trimmed down during the fire. The DVD set has more footage, but I still don't know if it is complete.

I saw this episode back in primetime in '79 or '80 and that scene of Alice and the baby at the window haunted me for days :eek: . I was only 8 or 9 at the time.

[Jack1000]

Quote: Did you all know that Hersha was almost Caroline's replacement, but Karen Grassle decided to stay?

Interesting! When did Karen Grassle think of leaving the show?

Jack

[Ireneparalegal]

Did you all know that Hersha was almost Caroline's replacement, but Karen Grassle decided to stay? Michael Landon liked her so much he gave her the part of the wife of his new best friend Jonathan Garvey. I liked Alice too and hated to see her character get written out like that.

If you watch the episode on Hallmark a lot of Alice's scenes are trimmed down during the fire. The DVD set has more footage, but I still don't know if it is complete.

I saw this episode back in primetime in '79 or '80 and that scene of Alice and the baby at the window haunted me for days :eek: . I was only 8 or 9 at the time.
When I seen this episode the first time it ever aired, I was so shocked at the scene of Alice and the baby. I couldn't believe that was how they wanted to write out the character. Of course, people do die in fires, I am just curious how they came up with that scenario. I was haunted in a way by that episode myself. And I was 15!!!

[seventies_sitcoms]

When I seen this episode the first time it ever aired, I was so shocked at the scene of Alice and the baby. I couldn't believe that was how they wanted to write out the character. Of course, people do die in fires, I am just curious how they came up with that scenario. I was haunted in a way by that episode myself. And I was 15!!!

Irene,
When you first saw the episode do you remember scenes with Alice and Hester Sue actually going into the bedrooms to wake the coughing children up? I swear I saw these scenes and them telling the kids they had to get up because there was a fire and they had to get outside. I swear I could've seen Alice pulling those kids practically out of bed and shoving them out into the hallway. When it was first broadcasted it was special 2 hour movie. I was wonder if scenes were cut for syndication. I didn't see this even on the DVD. I could just be imagining it. Hope you can help me out. I swore I saw the kids in bed and the rooms filled with smoke.

[Ireneparalegal]

Irene,
When you first saw the episode do you remember scenes with Alice and Hester Sue actually going into the bedrooms to wake the coughing children up? I swear I saw these scenes and them telling the kids they had to get up because there was a fire and they had to get outside. I swear I could've seen Alice pulling those kids practically out of bed and shoving them out into the hallway. When it was first broadcasted it was special 2 hour movie. I was wonder if scenes were cut for syndication. I didn't see this even on the DVD. I could just be imagining it. Hope you can help me out. I swore I saw the kids in bed and the rooms filled with smoke.
Yeah, they did go to the rooms, which is why I don't understand why Mary left her baby? I mean, if it was only Mary in the house, I could see her panicking, but there were four adults in the house, two who could see and it was obvious they would be the ones to go wake the children.

[Brenda Brown]

:( What I can't figure out is the way they just "forgave" Albert for starting the fire, and just went on treating him as if nothing happened. If I were Mary or Adam, I wouldn't have ever spoken him again and would have cursed my parents for taking in the little vagrant in the first place. As far as Andy, he went on being friends with Albert. He was responsible for killing his mother!

[Ireneparalegal]

:( What I can't figure out is the way they just "forgave" Albert for starting the fire, and just went on treating him as if nothing happened. If I were Mary or Adam, I wouldn't have ever spoken him again and would have cursed my parents for taking in the little vagrant in the first place. As far as Andy, he went on being friends with Albert. He was responsible for killing his mother!
I guess that's how forgiving this show was. But i would have preferred that the fire had been an accident or that someone other than Albert had started the fire.

[Sterling Holobyte]

I've always said that I thought the scenes with Alice and the baby were just horrific! It was probably the most disturbing episode of LHOTP.
I don't understand the criticism of the fictionalization of the episode which the OP referred to, though. If you are going to do that you would have to criticize all the episodes, pretty much, as there was dramatic license taken with all of them.
Although the way Alice died was terrifying, it might take some of the terribleness out of it when you realize that she did die a hero. Much like many a firefighter would do, she went back into the burning building to try and save Mary's baby. That's quite a heroic thing to do.

[Karen64]

Another thing in the script that was hard for me to take was Alice starting to pick up the baby--then hearing an older child calling for help. She hesitated, then just left the baby laying there!--losing valuable time. Seems she should have grabbed the baby, pull her dress or apron around him, then RUN to the older child!
(I know, I know, it's hard to speculate when, God forbid, you haven't actually been in a situation like that!)

[TV Guy]

Well, first of all, it was completely ridiculous that Mary would leave her baby for someone else to rescue. The maternal instinct would have kicked in - Mary would have saved her own child before she saved anyone else's. That's just nature.

Second, watch that scene where Alice first approaches the cradle to take the baby. She takes a few seconds to just stare at the baby. Obviously, the actress was waiting to hear her cue (the other kid shouting in the bathroom), but it still looked silly, like Alice was taking her sweet time.

Third, if Alice was trying to break the window, she should have used a piece of furniture or something to break it, not the baby. That poor baby didn't die of smoke inhalation; he probably died of head injuries sustained while Alice was ramming him against the window.

Fourth, having Andy just continue to be friends with Albert like nothing had happened was also dumb. There was an episode later where Andy didn't want to have dinner with Adam and Mary, because he blamed their baby for Alice's death. Yet earlier in that episode, he was all buddy-buddy with Albert. Yeah, let's assess the blame in the appropriate place, Andy.

[seventies_sitcoms]

Well, first of all, it was completely ridiculous that Mary would leave her baby for someone else to rescue. The maternal instinct would have kicked in - Mary would have saved her own child before she saved anyone else's. That's just nature.

Second, watch that scene where Alice first approaches the cradle to take the baby. She takes a few seconds to just stare at the baby. Obviously, the actress was waiting to hear her cue (the other kid shouting in the bathroom), but it still looked silly, like Alice was taking her sweet time.

Third, if Alice was trying to break the window, she should have used a piece of furniture or something to break it, not the baby. That poor baby didn't die of smoke inhalation; he probably died of head injuries sustained while Alice was ramming him against the window.

Fourth, having Andy just continue to be friends with Albert like nothing had happened was also dumb. There was an episode later where Andy didn't want to have dinner with Adam and Mary, because he blamed their baby for Alice's death. Yet earlier in that episode, he was all buddy-buddy with Albert. Yeah, let's assess the blame in the appropriate place, Andy.


I always wondered that myself! It looked like Alice was ready to rock the kid to sleep or something when she paused. I would've snatched that kid and got the heck out of there. I thought Mary did start going back for the baby, but Alice told her she would get it.

How many buildings on the prairie had an indoor bathroom in those days anyway?

[Jack1000]

But in regards to TV Guy's observation,

Doesn't Alice actually smash the window with her elbows but not the child? I wondered how they filmed that scene with the glass so that Alice wouldn't get hurt breaking it. The same thing with Mary smashing her hands through the window. Anybody have any ideas?

Jack

[Ireneparalegal]

But in regards to TV Guy's observation,

Doesn't Alice actually smash the window with her elbows but not the child? I wondered how they filmed that scene with the glass so that Alice wouldn't get hurt breaking it. The same thing with Mary smashing her hands through the window. Anybody have any ideas?

Jack
Alice did use her elbows. There is a special way for them to make glass so actors don't hurt themselves. It's made with water, sugar, and some other stuff. It's the same thing they use when two people are going to toast each other with wine glasses and one glass breaks.
look under breakaway glass or stunt glass on the web

here's one link:http://www.faqs.org/faqs/theatre/stagecraft/faq/section-38.html

[Brian Damage]

I didn't notice this thread. I saw this episode in syndication when I was about 10 years old. It was an episode that haunted me because you actually saw a woman and baby die. I was extremely moved by it.

[wiseguy182]

Here's something I didn't get.

How did James get left behind anyway? Not only did it previously show Alice and company going into the rooms and getting the children out, but it had shown that there was more than one kid to a room (the scene with James and another boy praying). James must have heard the commotion and/or smelled the smoke. I don't think the adults or the other boy(s) would have just left him there to die.

Did anybody else think this was strange

[Classicshowsgurl15]

I don't think that it is a BAD episode. It is very sad, but not BAD. I like the episode. I cry whenever I watch it.

[Ireneparalegal]

They showed that episode during the mini-marathon of LHOTP over the weekend. However, it was shown at 4 in the morning.

[catlover79]

That episode is disturbing enough, but watching it at 4 AM? That takes courage!

Hersha Parady spoke quite a bit about this ep at the Tombstone Film Festival in July 2005. She said it was not her choice to leave the show, but Michael Landon and the other higher-ups were creating Father Murphy for her TV husband, Merlin Olsen. He would be playing a totally new character and TPTB wanted the audience to get used to him playing a single man.

Hersha Parady is such a kind and sweet lady, and I hated to see her killed off as well. She is a Clevelander - just like me!! :cool:

[catlover79]

Here is the original NBC promo from 1980 when this episode aired the first time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC2m2WgeB6U